Cooling Saddle

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Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Mon May 14, 2018 18:43

Hi
Currently i'm using a coiled piece of 10 mm copper pipe around the cask wrapped in foilised bubble wrap attached to a shelf chiller to keep the ale cool it works but getting the coil on and off is a :twisted: :x
i want to make one of these https://www.dropbox.com/s/mdli4pjl4t2j8sy/sml_upcaskcooler.jpg?dl=0 to make the job easier
The way i was thinking of making it was getting a piece of 1/2" ply and cutting the shape i need (in 2d) and screwing it to another piece of ply and using this as a former bending the 10mm copper pipe around it then it can be gently wrapped around a cask or keg to suit
i thought of using a pipe bender but it would be difficult to make the bends and secondly keeping them uniform to keep the finished item pleasing to the eyes and so i can make multiples of them (just had a thought that if i made multiples i could make a pair to go round the fermenter to chill the ale and help the yeast sediment before casking without disturbing the ones around the currently tapped/dispencing)

Any budding manufacturing engineers out there that can come up with easy and consistant ways to make this please post it here

Steve
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby BigYin » Tue May 15, 2018 10:02

8mm copper pipe is a lot easier to bend to the kind of radius you'd be looking at for that. If you heat it before gently bending it 'round a suitable former you shouldn't have any issues with it kinking :)

You can pack the pipe with sand or salt to help prevent kinking, although I've never resorted to that, and I hear it can be a right sod to get the blasted stuff out afterwards....
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby Rolfster » Tue May 15, 2018 22:31

BigYin wrote:8mm copper pipe is a lot easier to bend to the kind of radius you'd be looking at for that. If you heat it before gently bending it 'round a suitable former you shouldn't have any issues with it kinking :)

You can pack the pipe with sand or salt to help prevent kinking, although I've never resorted to that, and I hear it can be a right sod to get the blasted stuff out afterwards....


I guess if you use salt you can wash it out? It will still probably take a while!
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby Cheebs » Wed May 16, 2018 14:18

I was chatting with a plumber mate at the weekend about 8mm microbore copper pipe. He assures me that I shouldn't need to fill it with salt as the wall thickness is pretty good. He did also say that tighter bends should be made with a bender though. Good luck!
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Wed May 16, 2018 17:55

thanks for the replys
keep them comming
i think i might struggle with the tightness and the quantity of the bends using a pipe bender
i will go to screwfix on friday and pick one up and have a bit of a experiment with a small lenght of 10mm even if i dont use the pipe bender for this project i am sure it will be usefull elsewhere perhaps bending brake pipes for the car

steve
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby HTH1975 » Thu May 17, 2018 19:22

How about using plastic tubing and John-Guest fittings? You could cable-tie them inside a sleeping bag and get some good insulation happening. Just look at the commercial examples for inspiration. You would just then use an ice bath and solar pump to recirc the water round the cask.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Fri May 18, 2018 19:13

Hi HTH
i have a shelf cooler with recirc pump so that side of it is sorted
i decided not to use plastic pipe as the thermal transfre would be less (the casks i use are 9 gallon plastic ones)
so thats already a limiting factor with heat transfre i don't want to make it any worse
but the idea of using pre made bends and soldering them have crossed my mind
i will try making the bend with a short lenght first see how easy it is and how tight radius i can acheve

steve

i will post pictures when i have done something

the pipe bender is on order
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby HTH1975 » Fri May 18, 2018 20:02

Those cooling jackets you can buy for casks use plastic tubing and they work a treat - if you have something wrapped around the coils and the cask it will keep the cold in. If you have a maxi chiller as well then you’re sorted.

https://a1barstuff.co.uk/upright-insulated-cask-jacket

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Fri May 18, 2018 20:28

i sort of like the idea of making something myself but thanks for that if it all go's wrong i will just buy one of those
was going to use the saved money to buy a clay trap fot 12G shooting

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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Sun May 20, 2018 19:34

After wasting a lenght of 10mm copper pipe this weekend i have now decided to go plan "B"
Using end feed solder on pre made bends this will not look as nice as plan "A" but it will work

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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Fri May 25, 2018 17:29

This little project is turning out more difficult than i thought it would ever be :-(
i tryed drawing it out and using a piece of string sellotaped to the cask to map it out but still not 100% happy with it yet
i have made a cutting list and am now moddeling it with strips of paper so when stuck together i can lay it over the cask and see how it looks

steve
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby HTH1975 » Mon May 28, 2018 20:40

If I can suggest plan c... take a liberal number of frozen water bottles and gaffer tape them round your cask. Job done

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Tue May 29, 2018 10:05

HTH1975 wrote:If I can suggest plan c... take a liberal number of frozen water bottles and gaffer tape them round your cask. Job done


Crude but it would work just a pain to keep renewing the bottles as they defrost and that i will get a soggy carpet underneith
the other suggestion was a container full of water with a basic coil in it cooled by the shelf chiller and just sit the cask in that but i didn't want large quantitys of water sitting round indoors like that this house is cold and wet damp enough without adding more water

so far i have got parts for the saddles i mocked them up with strips of 10mm paper and stuck them together and layed it over the cask and its looking good so far i will commit to soldering and shaping the copper pipe very soon

Steve
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby Rolfster » Tue May 29, 2018 20:02

Sounds like your moving forward with it :thumb: ... have you taken any photos? :whistle:
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Wed May 30, 2018 18:05

Hi
No Photos yet
In the end to get the paper template to work i had to stick it to a bit of clingfilm then offer it up to the cask i will take a pic of that soon i also have made a cutting list for the copper pipe the small vertical bits will need to be tweeked to make them fit exactly where i want it to sit
as i do that and the soldering i will take some photos
Steve
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby Rolfster » Wed May 30, 2018 23:58

Sounds good!
Have you considered adding some lengths of silicone to add a degree of flexibility to the whole structure?
Just a random thought.
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Sat Jun 02, 2018 17:51

hi rolfster
where woould you put the silicone tubing in?
i thought there would be enough flex in it as it was as its 2 seperate saddles and i was going to use hook and loop fastner between them to help keep it around the cask and make a hool/bracket to hold it on the top of the cask (i have some sheet copper for that and can solder the bracket to the pipe

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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby Rolfster » Sun Jun 03, 2018 08:51

I don't know!

It was just a thought inspired by a home made counter flow chiller I saw in here a while back.
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Tue Jun 05, 2018 20:13

some pictures as requested
first what i got now and then
mocking up with paper and sellotape and then the start of cutting the copper pipe and just pushed together (only half of one saddle done so far)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eg3k2xi2ubar3ea/IMAG0602.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dl7zl47p5weliw3/IMAG0737.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1gdhu38jx4e8wcs/IMAG0738.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7y1myj08quhlsa5/IMAG0740.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r3p1v25x5fgzfjo/IMAG0741.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v0zfrr6gg6x8ht9/IMAG0742.JPG?dl=0
sorry incerting the pictures didn't work so the url will have to do
needs tweeking a bit before i commit to soldering it all together

steve
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby Rolfster » Wed Jun 06, 2018 07:43

Looks good. You obviously don't need any silicone bits!
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby Cheebs » Wed Jun 06, 2018 13:17

It's coming along very nicely. Well done Steve. :cheers:
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Wed Jun 06, 2018 21:52

i have a very short attention span and at the moment this is testing it to the limit
the thing wants to go any which way but where i want it to be
i need a second set of hands to help but i got nobody around to do that (steve no mates untill it's something i can do for them and the favor is normally not returned :-( )

Steve
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby thepatchworkdoll » Thu Jun 07, 2018 22:49

Hey Steve I would gladly lend a hand if I was closer to you mate
Regards
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Re: Cooling Saddle

Postby sledgehammer » Fri Jun 08, 2018 19:11

i could be there in 10 hours or so LoL
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