Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

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Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Fri Sep 05, 2014 23:14

This book focuses on Saison and Biere de Garde and does a fine job.

I fell in love with Biere de Garde during a recent trip to France and there's very little information out there to describe it. It's quite a broad style anyway, as is saison and I'm very interested in making both.

As with Brew like a Monk, this isn't a recipe book, but it explains the principles of both styles and how they've changed over the years and I've definitely come away with some ideas I want to try after reading this. It's definitely a specialist book but invaluable if you'd like to know more about these styles and how to make them.

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby AltonAnt » Sat Sep 06, 2014 09:08

I'm reading this at the moment, mainly for information on Saisons which it does in droves and is an invaluable resource for those wanting to create these styles.
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby ctrl-malt-delete » Sun Sep 07, 2014 14:06

this is a great book and really enjoyable. i read it recently and it gave me all the detail i needed to formulate my own saison of fairly traditional style, which i'm really pleased with. as with Brew Like A Monk, it's one of those brewing books i keep going back to.

My brewing blog - http://rowettbrewing.com/
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:29

I'm getting a gavroche style biere de garde on as soon as I can now I know what's in it. I would have really liked to know how 3 monts is made though.

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby Capdown1 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 21:16

I'm doing a Fantome tasting on Saturday and was wondering if any one could point me in the right direction for some good articles on the farmhouse style. This book would have been brilliant but I'm way too skint to get it in time for Thursday.

As always any help would greatly be appreciated, about the style or the brewery.
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:39

Here are a few decent things to read.

http://allaboutbeer.com/article/bieres- ... -traveled/
https://byo.com/stories/item/1343-saison-style-profile

Where is this tasting? I never got round to trying the Fantome range last time I was in Belgium and it's on the hit list now. Good excuse to go back I suppose!

From what I've read they use a lot of spices and interesting flavours and their beers are stronger than the average saison, which tends to be between 5 and 7% ABV. They do different seasonal beers and seem to have quite a good range.

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby AltonAnt » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:47

I bought this a few weeks ago in the Bottledog and they had about 3 other types.

Image

I wonder if it is worth harvesting this yeast?

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Thu Oct 16, 2014 14:58

AltonAnt wrote:I bought this a few weeks ago in the Bottledog and they had about 3 other types.

Image

I wonder if it is worth harvesting this yeast?

Image


Might have to get down there. I went to have a look at their home brew section which was a bit lacking at the time and the beer prices seemed a bit steep but it seems to be the only place to get that stuff. Let me know how it tastes. I've heard the printemps is the best of the lot so should be a belter.

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby AltonAnt » Thu Oct 16, 2014 15:20

I think it was about £8 for the Fantome :shock:
But as you say you can only get it here. I'll let you know how it is.
I also picked up a Dupont and a Mariage Parfait Kriek.

The yeast might be a no go as I think it isn't just yeast but brett, lacto etc which doesn't grow at the same rate so one will dominate.
I might be able to add the dregs to a batch towards the end of the ferment.
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Thu Oct 16, 2014 19:39

AltonAnt wrote:I think it was about £8 for the Fantome :shock:
But as you say you can only get it here. I'll let you know how it is.
I also picked up a Dupont and a Mariage Parfait Kriek.

The yeast might be a no go as I think it isn't just yeast but brett, lacto etc which doesn't grow at the same rate so one will dominate.
I might be able to add the dregs to a batch towards the end of the ferment.


You'll be able to tell by tasting it whether there's any bacteria in there. Might be good to try growing it anyway.

£8 is steep but worth it for a treat. I might have to get a few bottles in.

I read somewhere that the Biere de Garde yeast that Wyeast does is from Fantome. It doesn't make sense though but there's no typical Biere de Garde yeast from what I understand.

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby Capdown1 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 14:34

serum wrote:Here are a few decent things to read.

http://allaboutbeer.com/article/bieres- ... -traveled/
https://byo.com/stories/item/1343-saison-style-profile

Where is this tasting? I never got round to trying the Fantome range last time I was in Belgium and it's on the hit list now. Good excuse to go back I suppose!

From what I've read they use a lot of spices and interesting flavours and their beers are stronger than the average saison, which tends to be between 5 and 7% ABV. They do different seasonal beers and seem to have quite a good range.


Hey thanks for the help, I actually managed to find a lecture by Phil Markowski on TBN, 2005 archives (Starts at about 2hrs 5 minutes into the 'Carbonation' podcast)

Brewdog let me hold the tasting at their bar in Aberdeen as it was an event I organised on behalf of the Aberdeen University Craft Beer and Brewing society. It was really successful, think I'm organising a Lost Abbey one next.

Regarding the beers, I would recommend getting a few bottles from bottledog/brewdog online (where i got mine). I would avoid 'Hiver' as we had a few bad bottles of that, but all the rest were amazing. My favourite out the bunch was their 'Saison'; just ordered another 3 bottles. I'll elabourate further when I've got more time; currently on my 30 minute lunch break.

Since the tasting I really can't be bothered with APAs/IPAs any more; so boring in comparison
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Tue Nov 04, 2014 15:24

Capdown1 wrote:
serum wrote:Here are a few decent things to read.

http://allaboutbeer.com/article/bieres- ... -traveled/
https://byo.com/stories/item/1343-saison-style-profile

Where is this tasting? I never got round to trying the Fantome range last time I was in Belgium and it's on the hit list now. Good excuse to go back I suppose!

From what I've read they use a lot of spices and interesting flavours and their beers are stronger than the average saison, which tends to be between 5 and 7% ABV. They do different seasonal beers and seem to have quite a good range.


Hey thanks for the help, I actually managed to find a lecture by Phil Markowski on TBN, 2005 archives (Starts at about 2hrs 5 minutes into the 'Carbonation' podcast)

Brewdog let me hold the tasting at their bar in Aberdeen as it was an event I organised on behalf of the Aberdeen University Craft Beer and Brewing society. It was really successful, think I'm organising a Lost Abbey one next.

Regarding the beers, I would recommend getting a few bottles from bottledog/brewdog online (where i got mine). I would avoid 'Hiver' as we had a few bad bottles of that, but all the rest were amazing. My favourite out the bunch was their 'Saison'; just ordered another 3 bottles. I'll elabourate further when I've got more time; currently on my 30 minute lunch break.

Since the tasting I really can't be bothered with APAs/IPAs any more; so boring in comparison


Sounds cracking. If you have a link to that lecture I'd love to have a listen.

I used to live in Aberdeen as it happens and my family's still up there. Are these tastings open to the public as I'm sure I know a few folk who would like to go to something like that. I'm definitely going to have to get hold of some of the Fantome range.

Much as I like hoppy beers I've always thought Belgian ales are miles better.

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby Capdown1 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 14:46

serum wrote:Sounds cracking. If you have a link to that lecture I'd love to have a listen.


I think that is the lecture, I'm at work and I can't get on to the site :thumb:

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The- ... arbonation


serum wrote:I used to live in Aberdeen as it happens and my family's still up there. Are these tastings open to the public as I'm sure I know a few folk who would like to go to something like that. I'm definitely going to have to get hold of some of the Fantome range.


Yes and no ;) The ones I organise are a decent mix of students and beer geeks/homebrewers (public), but the ones other members of the society committee organise (which so far this year is nil) are solely for students. Depending on subscription for the next event I'll email you details, i think the max we could get at Brewdog would be maybe 18 (15 attended last time).
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Tue Nov 11, 2014 13:01

Capdown1 wrote:
serum wrote:Sounds cracking. If you have a link to that lecture I'd love to have a listen.


I think that is the lecture, I'm at work and I can't get on to the site :thumb:

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The- ... arbonation


serum wrote:I used to live in Aberdeen as it happens and my family's still up there. Are these tastings open to the public as I'm sure I know a few folk who would like to go to something like that. I'm definitely going to have to get hold of some of the Fantome range.


Yes and no ;) The ones I organise are a decent mix of students and beer geeks/homebrewers (public), but the ones other members of the society committee organise (which so far this year is nil) are solely for students. Depending on subscription for the next event I'll email you details, i think the max we could get at Brewdog would be maybe 18 (15 attended last time).


Great stuff. I'll be visiting around christmas and aiming to spend a good bit of time in Brewdog and 6 Degrees North. It's quite surprising how big the beer scene is in Aberdeen right now.

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby Capdown1 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 22:32

serum wrote:
Great stuff. I'll be visiting around christmas and aiming to spend a good bit of time in Brewdog and 6 Degrees North. It's quite surprising how big the beer scene is in Aberdeen right now.


Well it's easily done, let me know if you want to catch a few drinks, hopefully I will have read 'Farmhouse Ales' by then. If I don't see you, be sure to check out a bar called CASC which opened up at the start of the year, great little bar just off market street. Theres also a new bar which has opened up next to Sixnorth called Bottle' n 'Cap Bar and Brewery. The bar is terrible and give it a miss; bar staff are unknowledgeable, the tap and bottle list is always uninspiring and they keep their beer fridges so cold you have to wait 15 minutes to let the bottle warm up :nono: I've only tried one of their house brews (their stout) which wasn't to my liking either; really thin, headless, with some milk chocolate notes.

Did you enjoy the lecture?
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby Capdown1 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 09:24

AltonAnt wrote:I bought this a few weeks ago in the Bottledog and they had about 3 other types.

Image

I wonder if it is worth harvesting this yeast?

Image



How was it Alton? I didn't get hold of this bottle (it's never been in stock on the brewdog website funnily enough)? I got two bottles of the Pissenlit from a bottle shop in London, but unfortunately it was oxidised and came out very sweet. I also tried a bottle of Chocolat from an Edinburgh bottle shop (greatgrog) but for the most part the nose was dominated by a skunky aroma - good old' green bottles. Carbonation and flavour were still pretty good, but I'd love to taste a fresh bottle that hadn't been sitting under a light for 6 months.

I'm on the look out for Magic Ghost if any one sees a bottle.
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby AltonAnt » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:56

As you can imaging it was a pretty unique beer.
Perfect carbonation level from the bottle and there is a hint of brett.
The initial taste is of fresh lemons which is very refreshing. This quickly fades to a very light bodied beer that would be quite unexpected in anything 8% abv if it wasn't a Saison and there is small amounts of the spicy esters usually associated with this style.
It should come with a health warning as it is far too quaffable and is a masterclass in expanding the boundaries of what is possible.
£8 well spent :)
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby Capdown1 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 09:33

Totally agree on the unique quality of the beers. I would serioulsy recommend getting their flagship saison if you can, the bottles I had were really kind of mind blowing.

Despite the complexity of flavours and spices in these beers, I think the carbonation is what really makes drinking this a pleasure.

Also totally agree about the price; even better when you get 20% online d/c
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Thu Nov 20, 2014 07:27

Capdown1 wrote:
serum wrote:
Great stuff. I'll be visiting around christmas and aiming to spend a good bit of time in Brewdog and 6 Degrees North. It's quite surprising how big the beer scene is in Aberdeen right now.


Well it's easily done, let me know if you want to catch a few drinks, hopefully I will have read 'Farmhouse Ales' by then. If I don't see you, be sure to check out a bar called CASC which opened up at the start of the year, great little bar just off market street. Theres also a new bar which has opened up next to Sixnorth called Bottle' n 'Cap Bar and Brewery. The bar is terrible and give it a miss; bar staff are unknowledgeable, the tap and bottle list is always uninspiring and they keep their beer fridges so cold you have to wait 15 minutes to let the bottle warm up :nono: I've only tried one of their house brews (their stout) which wasn't to my liking either; really thin, headless, with some milk chocolate notes.

Did you enjoy the lecture?


I've downloaded the lecture but not listened yet.

I've heard about CASC and might give that a bash. I can give you a shout when I'm over, would be good to have a chat to another brewer.

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Sat Nov 22, 2014 20:33

I finally tried the "Saison Sur Lie" today at the bottle shop in Bermondsey and agree that it's incredible. I also managed to get some Saison D'Epautre and Darbyste from Blaugies brewery. I had the Darbyste at the shop and it was the first beer that's actually given me the "barnyard" taste so many people seem to go on about when they talk about Belgian beers.

It's been a great day for Saison drinking!

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby Capdown1 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 20:07

Ahhh glad you digged it, I've luckily got another 3 bottles in the fridge chilling after getting a load more; cracking one open tomorrow evening (begrudgingly with the gf ;-) ) before the To OL/Brewdog dinner at Musa. I've not heard of the other two beers, but Darbyste sounds incredible. I'm still fairly new to the style, but it's pretty much on my list every time I visit sixnorth so working my way through them. I get more barnyard nose characters from beers from breweries like Cantillon, and I'm still yet to get "horseblanket" from Brettanomyces but with any luck the Lost Abbey 'Saints Devotion' I've got in the fridge will pull through.

You'll also appreciate this documentary promo if you've not checked it out before, such a shame it didn't get made. Enjoyed this last Friday with a bottle of Cantillon 'Iris' and 'Mamouche':

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Wed Nov 26, 2014 07:33

Capdown1 wrote:Ahhh glad you digged it, I've luckily got another 3 bottles in the fridge chilling after getting a load more; cracking one open tomorrow evening (begrudgingly with the gf ;-) ) before the To OL/Brewdog dinner at Musa. I've not heard of the other two beers, but Darbyste sounds incredible. I'm still fairly new to the style, but it's pretty much on my list every time I visit sixnorth so working my way through them. I get more barnyard nose characters from beers from breweries like Cantillon, and I'm still yet to get "horseblanket" from Brettanomyces but with any luck the Lost Abbey 'Saints Devotion' I've got in the fridge will pull through.

You'll also appreciate this documentary promo if you've not checked it out before, such a shame it didn't get made. Enjoyed this last Friday with a bottle of Cantillon 'Iris' and 'Mamouche':



Excellent I'll watch that later. I finally got round to listening to the lecture and it was great.

Not sure if you saw this on the commerial beer forum but you can get a lot of good saison and lambic from this site: http://www.bieresgourmet.be/catalog/

They've got all the Blaugies beer on there, lots of Fantome and Cantillon

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby Capdown1 » Fri Nov 28, 2014 09:29

serum wrote:
Excellent I'll watch that later. I finally got round to listening to the lecture and it was great.

Not sure if you saw this on the commerial beer forum but you can get a lot of good saison and lambic from this site: http://www.bieresgourmet.be/catalog/

They've got all the Blaugies beer on there, lots of Fantome and Cantillon


Don't thank me yet, once you've watched it you'll be itching for more but alas it never got funded.

That website looks incredible, and just in time for Christmas. Any experience with them delivery/storage quality etc? They've got magic ghost in stock too. And (probably) more interestingly, Rodenbach Caractère Rouge. All the bottles are so reasonably priced as well.
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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby serum » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:16

Capdown1 wrote:
serum wrote:
Excellent I'll watch that later. I finally got round to listening to the lecture and it was great.

Not sure if you saw this on the commerial beer forum but you can get a lot of good saison and lambic from this site: http://www.bieresgourmet.be/catalog/

They've got all the Blaugies beer on there, lots of Fantome and Cantillon


Don't thank me yet, once you've watched it you'll be itching for more but alas it never got funded.

That website looks incredible, and just in time for Christmas. Any experience with them delivery/storage quality etc? They've got magic ghost in stock too. And (probably) more interestingly, Rodenbach Caractère Rouge. All the bottles are so reasonably priced as well.


Their service is excellent in terms of delivery. I ordered on monday night and received the package yesterday. Postage was quite steep at €17 for 11 750ml bottles but it still worked out at £55 for the lot which is only fiver each including postage. Can't say fairer than that. I'm yet to drink any of them yet. I guess I'll find out what their storage is like tonight if it looks like they've settled.

I got 2 bottles of the Fantome Saison, one of Brise Bonbons and one of Pissenlit and doubles of almost all the Blaugies ones.

I've also found a really good french site for Biere De Garde which has pretty much all the ones from the Farmhouse Ales book when you get round to reading it:

http://www.saveur-biere.com/en/

They're nigh on impossible to find in the UK. Postage seems to be about €11 for 12 750ml which is very good.

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Re: Farmhouse Ales - Phil Markowski

Postby AltonAnt » Thu Jan 15, 2015 16:18

If anybody would like to read this book it is now available for free via Issuu - http://issuu.com/gillermo/docs/fapm/1
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