Possible to make a quick sour beer?

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Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby StevieDS » Mon May 04, 2015 21:44

Today I acquired 2kg of blueberries for a good price, and I've been wanting to make a blueberry sour beer for a while now. However my lambic is years from being ready so is there a quick way to make a sour beer so I can use these berries?
Thanks. Stevie

"The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Planning: Brett Amarillo Smash
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby robwalker » Mon May 04, 2015 21:46

Yes, there's two in fact.

First is a sour mash, which requires you to keep a small quantity of pale malt at around 45c for 48 hours. that sours it up nicely, then you just add that liquor to your main mash.

Second is even quicker, just add lactic acid (or various acids) at the correct dose. Not very legit, but very quick.

You get what you wait for with sours, but I'd happily neck a few sour mash beers!
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby StevieDS » Tue May 05, 2015 00:09

Thanks Rob, did some reading up on sour mashing, looks very interesting. I do enjoy trying new techniques, and this one apparently seems to give better results than adding lactic acid direct.

Have you tried either method yourself?

"The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Planning: Brett Amarillo Smash
Fermenting: AG52 Brett Saison v2, AG41 Lambic v2.0
Conditioning: AG51 Brett Saison, AG48 Biere de Garde, AG42 Westvleteren XII Clone, AG29 Lambic v1.0
Drinking: AG51 Brett Saison v1, AG53 Standard Bitter
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby robwalker » Tue May 05, 2015 10:39

I haven't but a friend did the sour mash and got good results!
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby Grumpydev » Tue May 05, 2015 11:10

You can also buy sour malt, which is "pre-soured", and throw some of that into your mash.
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby Partial_to_Mash » Tue May 05, 2015 11:55

Acid malt. Mate made his first Gose yesterday using a recipe that just uses a lot of acid malt to sour it, which has lambic acid added to it. Or you can make a sour mash, or use a sour/lambic yeast. I've never made a sour, myself. Some useful links:

https://byo.com/videos/item/889-how-to- ... techniques

http://beerandwinejournal.com/simple-sour-beer/

http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2012/02/h ... occus.html

http://byo.com/grains/item/1691-sour-mashing-techniques
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby robwalker » Tue May 05, 2015 13:33

Grumpydev wrote:You can also buy sour malt, which is "pre-soured", and throw some of that into your mash.


interesting, that sounds great!
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby robwalker » Tue May 05, 2015 13:34

Just googled a recipe, looks like Acid Malt. Poster says this gives strong results so definitely a good place to start. They also have the advantage that "fake souring" won't ruin your kit and make all of your beers sour like a proper infected beer.

Acid Malt Soured Saison

Recipe Specifics
--------------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 15.00
Anticipated OG: 1.069
Anticipated SRM: 4.1
Anticipated IBU: 10.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 67 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Grain
-------
66.7% - 10.00 lbs. German Pilsener
20.0% - 3.00 lbs. Weyermann Sauer(acid) Malt
13.3% - 2.00 lbs. Wheat Malt

Hops
-------
0.50 oz. Hallertauer Tradition (Pellet, 6.00% AA) @ 60 min.

Yeast
-------
WYeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale

Water Profile
----------------
Profile: Washington DC

Mash Schedule
-----------------
Sacch Rest 45 min @ 159 F
Acid Malt Sacch 30 min @ 159 F
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby Grumpydev » Tue May 05, 2015 14:44

Yeah, that's the approach I am thinking of taking for my first sour - don't fancy the risk of accidentally souring subsequent batches, and certainly don't have the patience for a lambic :D
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby StevieDS » Tue May 05, 2015 23:51

Thanks for the advice, I'm really intrigued by sour mashing :hmm:
Think I'll make an experiment out of this. Do a sour mash 60% pils 40% wheat, bittered to around 10 ibu, ferment, then split in 2. Half racked onto the blueberries, the other half I'll add the dregs from a couple of bottles of Orval for a little funk.
I really like the idea of doing lots of smaller experimental batches.

"The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Planning: Brett Amarillo Smash
Fermenting: AG52 Brett Saison v2, AG41 Lambic v2.0
Conditioning: AG51 Brett Saison, AG48 Biere de Garde, AG42 Westvleteren XII Clone, AG29 Lambic v1.0
Drinking: AG51 Brett Saison v1, AG53 Standard Bitter
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby jkp » Sat May 09, 2015 11:37

StevieDS wrote:Thanks for the advice, I'm really intrigued by sour mashing :hmm:
Think I'll make an experiment out of this. Do a sour mash 60% pils 40% wheat, bittered to around 10 ibu, ferment, then split in 2. Half racked onto the blueberries, the other half I'll add the dregs from a couple of bottles of Orval for a little funk.
I really like the idea of doing lots of smaller experimental batches.


Are you going to sour mash the entire grist or just a small portion of it?
I can't decide if doing the entire grist will be too sour of not.

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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby StevieDS » Sat May 09, 2015 14:15

jkp wrote:Are you going to sour mash the entire grist or just a small portion of it?
I can't decide if doing the entire grist will be too sour of not.


I've thought long and hard about this too. From what I read, anything over 50% of the grist will be really sour.
Bearing that in mind I don't think I'll sour the full mash, probably about 30-40%. I'm not going for a full on gueze sourness, just enough to be pleasantly noticeable.
I'm also wondering how much extra sourness will be added by the blueberries after all their sugar has been fermented out.

"The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Planning: Brett Amarillo Smash
Fermenting: AG52 Brett Saison v2, AG41 Lambic v2.0
Conditioning: AG51 Brett Saison, AG48 Biere de Garde, AG42 Westvleteren XII Clone, AG29 Lambic v1.0
Drinking: AG51 Brett Saison v1, AG53 Standard Bitter
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Re: Possible to make a quick sour beer?

Postby rlemkin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:28

StevieDS wrote:
jkp wrote:Are you going to sour mash the entire grist or just a small portion of it?
I can't decide if doing the entire grist will be too sour of not.


I've thought long and hard about this too. From what I read, anything over 50% of the grist will be really sour.
Bearing that in mind I don't think I'll sour the full mash, probably about 30-40%. I'm not going for a full on gueze sourness, just enough to be pleasantly noticeable.
I'm also wondering how much extra sourness will be added by the blueberries after all their sugar has been fermented out.


From what I gather there's nothing wrong with souring the full batch, it's how long you leave it to sour that will have the biggest impact.

If you're worried about nasties when it comes to sour mashing then add some acidulated malt after the initial mash time to lower the ph and keep it at a certain temperature. Good blog on the process - http://sourbeerblog.com/fast-souring-lactobacillus.
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