Belgian Tripel

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Belgian Tripel

Postby simonk68 » Sat Sep 05, 2015 21:31

my next brew is going to be a Belgian Tripel, recipe below, I have made some Belgian Candy sugar which I am planning on using. there seems to be a difference of opinion on when to add this. Do I add it half way threw boil, or at flame out? I am concerned of it sinking and making a mess of elements.

Pilsner (2 row) Bel 78%
Caravienne Malt 11%
Candy Sugar 11%

Target OG 1.095
Target FG 1.02
ALC Vol % 9.87

Northern Brewer 25.0g 60mins
Mt hood 15.0g 15.0mins
Mt hood 15.0g 5.0mins
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby GrahamT » Sun Sep 06, 2015 00:47

Having done several tripels and a quad, I'm now set on adding any large sugar additions after 2 or 3 days of fermentation.

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby tommidolcetto » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:32

GrahamT wrote:Having done several tripels and a quad, I'm now set on adding any large sugar additions after 2 or 3 days of fermentation.


Could you explain why please.
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby GrahamT » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:47

tommidolcetto wrote:
GrahamT wrote:Having done several tripels and a quad, I'm now set on adding any large sugar additions after 2 or 3 days of fermentation.


Could you explain why please.


To avoid 'giving the yeast dessert before they've finished the main course', as someone else put it. Basically (in theory) to make sure the yeast keeps fit enough eating the more complex malt sugars, before chilling out on the simpler ones. If it was just a bit, I wouldn't worry. If it's ~10% of the fermentables (which is common in these recipes) then this is what I now do. I imagine you'd have to dissolve the crystals and cool. I've got ready made syrup for my next one, which is reported to get better results from what I've read.

So much of the flavour in these Belgians comes from the fermentation, so I want the yeast as match-fit for as long as possible, to avoid any under attenuation or stress along the way. A big pitch of yeast too. As ever though, this is just my ramblings based on what I've read and been able top try out: I'm certainly not a scientist or saying it's the only way.

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby simonk68 » Mon Sep 07, 2015 09:11

GrahamT wrote:Having done several tripels and a quad, I'm now set on adding any large sugar additions after 2 or 3 days of fermentation.


Thanks for reply, I have solid candy sugar, would you dissolve in boiling water and cool before adding to wort? I don't usually like to disturb things once it is fermenting so would you need to stir well after adding to recirculate the yeast? I am using (White Labs #WLP500).
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby GrahamT » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:17

simonk68 wrote:
GrahamT wrote:Having done several tripels and a quad, I'm now set on adding any large sugar additions after 2 or 3 days of fermentation.


Thanks for reply, I have solid candy sugar, would you dissolve in boiling water and cool before adding to wort? I don't usually like to disturb things once it is fermenting so would you need to stir well after adding to recirculate the yeast? I am using (White Labs #WLP500).


You'll have no problem keeping enough yeast in suspension with these Belgian strains, at least not at the point where I would be adding the sugar (2-3 days). My tripels with WLP530 have taken around 3 weeks to fully ferment out: the last few points can be really slow and steady, even though the initial action can be rapid. I tend to give a couple of careful splashless stirs only during the last few points.

For an 11% addition, wait for a full, deep head of yeast (so most of the yeast growth is out of the way) before adding your cooled mix. Stir sparingly. That's my way, anyhow.

By the way, I would expect far greater attenuation than your figures suggest. You haven't detailed your mash schedule, but with 11% sugar in there and a Trappist strain, I'd plan for maybe 85% attenuation and an FG of 1.014 or lower. 1.095 is a big tripel.

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby simonk68 » Mon Sep 07, 2015 14:33

GrahamT wrote:
simonk68 wrote:
GrahamT wrote:Having done several tripels and a quad, I'm now set on adding any large sugar additions after 2 or 3 days of fermentation.


Thanks for reply, I have solid candy sugar, would you dissolve in boiling water and cool before adding to wort? I don't usually like to disturb things once it is fermenting so would you need to stir well after adding to recirculate the yeast? I am using (White Labs #WLP500).


You'll have no problem keeping enough yeast in suspension with these Belgian strains, at least not at the point where I would be adding the sugar (2-3 days). My tripels with WLP530 have taken around 3 weeks to fully ferment out: the last few points can be really slow and steady, even though the initial action can be rapid. I tend to give a couple of careful splashless stirs only during the last few points.

For an 11% addition, wait for a full, deep head of yeast (so most of the yeast growth is out of the way) before adding your cooled mix. Stir sparingly. That's my way, anyhow.

By the way, I would expect far greater attenuation than your figures suggest. You haven't detailed your mash schedule, but with 11% sugar in there and a Trappist strain, I'd plan for maybe 85% attenuation and an FG of 1.014 or lower. 1.095 is a big tripel.


thanks that's great info, just out of interest how long a mash and what temp would you suggest? I was planning 60min at 66-68degC,
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby GrahamT » Mon Sep 07, 2015 14:41

These are traditionally dry, low finishers. 65/66 for a full 90 mins for me, unless you go down the step mash direction.

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby serum » Thu Sep 10, 2015 19:37

A tripel needs a bit of sweetness in my view so mashing around 66-67 would work and let the sugar dry it out.

I've added sugar 15 mins towards the end of the boil but with solid candi you need to melt it and that takes a good bit of time. To be honest, unless you're using coloured stuff plain sugar works just fine.

9.8% is pretty beefy even for that style but should be good

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby robwalker » Fri Sep 11, 2015 09:29

I've used staggered sugar additions for a port wine too. This was recommended by C J J Berry though so who knows if it actually works.
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby simonk68 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:32

serum wrote:A tripel needs a bit of sweetness in my view so mashing around 66-67 would work and let the sugar dry it out.

I've added sugar 15 mins towards the end of the boil but with solid candi you need to melt it and that takes a good bit of time. To be honest, unless you're using coloured stuff plain sugar works just fine.

9.8% is pretty beefy even for that style but should be good


Well, did brew yesterday, plumped for adding sugar with 15 mins of boil remaining, melted it separately in a pan with 1 litre of water, got an OG of 1.082, target was 1.085 so pretty happy with that. toned original recipe down a bit to 8.68% ABV. 90 min mash. fermenting away nicely this morning :thumb:
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby simonk68 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 19:41

simonk68 wrote:
serum wrote:A tripel needs a bit of sweetness in my view so mashing around 66-67 would work and let the sugar dry it out.

I've added sugar 15 mins towards the end of the boil but with solid candi you need to melt it and that takes a good bit of time. To be honest, unless you're using coloured stuff plain sugar works just fine.

9.8% is pretty beefy even for that style but should be good


Well, did brew yesterday, plumped for adding sugar with 15 mins of boil remaining, melted it separately in a pan with 1 litre of water, got an OG of 1.082, target was 1.085 so pretty happy with that. toned original recipe down a bit to 8.68% ABV. 90 min mash. fermenting away nicely this morning :thumb:


Tested SG today, 2 weeks after pitching yeast and it was 1.012!!! amazing, was aiming for 1.019, 9.2%!! smells and tastes amazing! got real banana flavour going on! transferred it to secondary. Should I leave or should I bottle straight away?
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby serum » Sun Sep 27, 2015 20:05

I can't see there's a problem with bottling it now. It can help to get the yeast to settle a bit more bit depends if you can be arsed.

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby GrahamT » Sun Sep 27, 2015 21:37

simonk68 wrote:
simonk68 wrote:
serum wrote:A tripel needs a bit of sweetness in my view so mashing around 66-67 would work and let the sugar dry it out.

I've added sugar 15 mins towards the end of the boil but with solid candi you need to melt it and that takes a good bit of time. To be honest, unless you're using coloured stuff plain sugar works just fine.

9.8% is pretty beefy even for that style but should be good


Well, did brew yesterday, plumped for adding sugar with 15 mins of boil remaining, melted it separately in a pan with 1 litre of water, got an OG of 1.082, target was 1.085 so pretty happy with that. toned original recipe down a bit to 8.68% ABV. 90 min mash. fermenting away nicely this morning :thumb:


Tested SG today, 2 weeks after pitching yeast and it was 1.012!!! amazing, was aiming for 1.019, 9.2%!! smells and tastes amazing! got real banana flavour going on! transferred it to secondary. Should I leave or should I bottle straight away?


I did say to plan for 1.014 or lower! :whistle: Sounds good.

I'm doing a strong blonde with WLP550 in the morning.

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby simonk68 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 15:21

GrahamT wrote:
simonk68 wrote:
simonk68 wrote:
serum wrote:A tripel needs a bit of sweetness in my view so mashing around 66-67 would work and let the sugar dry it out.

I've added sugar 15 mins towards the end of the boil but with solid candi you need to melt it and that takes a good bit of time. To be honest, unless you're using coloured stuff plain sugar works just fine.

9.8% is pretty beefy even for that style but should be good


Well, did brew yesterday, plumped for adding sugar with 15 mins of boil remaining, melted it separately in a pan with 1 litre of water, got an OG of 1.082, target was 1.085 so pretty happy with that. toned original recipe down a bit to 8.68% ABV. 90 min mash. fermenting away nicely this morning :thumb:


Tested SG today, 2 weeks after pitching yeast and it was 1.012!!! amazing, was aiming for 1.019, 9.2%!! smells and tastes amazing! got real banana flavour going on! transferred it to secondary. Should I leave or should I bottle straight away?


I did say to plan for 1.014 or lower! :whistle: Sounds good.

I'm doing a strong blonde with WLP550 in the morning.


I now have 15 litres of delicious Tripel, I want to bottle in 330ml bottles. how best to prime? I have always used the balls of sugar dropped into each bottle. never primed prior to bottling with sugar and water, how do I do it? beer is just over 9%abv
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby serum » Tue Sep 29, 2015 15:32

Search for brewer's friend priming calculator. That's what I use. I tend to calculate it for 3 volumes of co2. Dissolve the amount of sugar in boiling water then put in a sterilized container until cold. Put that in the bottling bucket and rack the beer on top stirring gently at the end.

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby GrahamT » Tue Sep 29, 2015 17:44

Don't forget that at these levels of priming, you can be adding as much as 0.5%ABV! I know it's not the main thing, but I like to take note.

The guideline I remember is that 18g sugar adds around 1% to a litre. So 80g in 23L adds about 0.2 etc.

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby simonk68 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 14:17

simonk68 wrote:
GrahamT wrote:
simonk68 wrote:
simonk68 wrote:
serum wrote:A tripel needs a bit of sweetness in my view so mashing around 66-67 would work and let the sugar dry it out.

I've added sugar 15 mins towards the end of the boil but with solid candi you need to melt it and that takes a good bit of time. To be honest, unless you're using coloured stuff plain sugar works just fine.

9.8% is pretty beefy even for that style but should be good


Well, did brew yesterday, plumped for adding sugar with 15 mins of boil remaining, melted it separately in a pan with 1 litre of water, got an OG of 1.082, target was 1.085 so pretty happy with that. toned original recipe down a bit to 8.68% ABV. 90 min mash. fermenting away nicely this morning :thumb:


Tested SG today, 2 weeks after pitching yeast and it was 1.012!!! amazing, was aiming for 1.019, 9.2%!! smells and tastes amazing! got real banana flavour going on! transferred it to secondary. Should I leave or should I bottle straight away?


I did say to plan for 1.014 or lower! :whistle: Sounds good.

I'm doing a strong blonde with WLP550 in the morning.


I now have 15 litres of delicious Tripel, I want to bottle in 330ml bottles. how best to prime? I have always used the balls of sugar dropped into each bottle. never primed prior to bottling with sugar and water, how do I do it? beer is just over 9%abv


Well I bottled beer, worked on a CO vol of 3, so added 128g sugar in boiled and cooled water. added to bottling bucket, I now have 44 bottles of beer sat in the corner of my living room. hopefully in a few weeks be ready!
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby AndyBWood » Wed Nov 25, 2015 21:46

Hi SimonK

Have you been tempted to try one yet ?

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby simonk68 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:00

AndyBWood wrote:Hi SimonK

Have you been tempted to try one yet ?

A


yes, it is amazing, everyone who has tasted it cant believe how good it is and say its as good as anything they have bought! real banana , bubble gum flavours, a real kick at 9.2%, but gorgeous taste!
anyone want the recipe i mail it to them.
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby serum » Tue Dec 08, 2015 20:08

Sounds like a winner! Good job!

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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby rlemkin » Tue Dec 08, 2015 22:20

Sounds interesting. Did you use Belgian beer bottles? 3 vols of Co2 is perhaps pushing it for your average beer bottle.
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby simonk68 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:43

Full recipe and notes!

Batch size 15 litres
Target OG 1.085
Target FG 1.019 alc vol - 8.68%

Weyerman Premium Pilsner malt 4.86Kg
CaraBelge malt 0.499Kg
Candy sugar* (dissolved in 500ml boiling water 0.474Kg *(added to boil with 15 mins remaining)
Mash water 15.5 Litres
Mash temp 68 deg C
time 90 mins

required pre boil volume 18.1 litres
boil time 60 mins
Hops
Saaz 30 g 60 mins
Styrian Goldings (Bobek) 25g 15 mins
Styrian Goldings (Bobek) 30g 6 mins
total IBU 22
Yeast (White Labs #WLP500)
(White Labs #WLP500) prepared in yeast starter consisting of 100g DME and 1 litre of water, pitched 29 hours later. 15 litres remaining after boil. Transferred to secondary after 2 weeks fermentation, SG 1.012, AMAZING taste and smell!! Transferred to bottling bucket after 9 days in secondary, primed with 128g sugar boiled in 450ml water. Bottled 44 x 330ml bottles.

Enjoy! any questions let me know. :D
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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby AndyBWood » Wed Dec 09, 2015 14:00

Hi SK

Was it this type of sugar you added ? ( picture taken from Rob the Malt Miller's site )


Image


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Re: Belgian Tripel

Postby simonk68 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:27

AndyBWood wrote:Hi SK

Was it this type of sugar you added ? ( picture taken from Rob the Malt Miller's site )


Image


A


No, I made it my self, looked more like brown glass when set. description on how to make is below.

Making Candi Sugar
Making Belgian Candi Sugar
by Graham Sanders
Belgian brewers often use sugar in beer making to produce high alcohol beers without a thick body. They normally will use what is called Candi Sugar, but this stuff is pretty expensive, costing homebrewers around $4-5 per pound. Basically, candi sugar is ordinary white cane/beet sugar (sucrose) that has been modified by an ‘inversion’ process, producing ‘invert sugar’.
You can make your own ‘invert sugar’ from ordinary table sugar with just a few simple items. Sucrose is made up of two simpler sugars (glucose and fructose) joined together. Yeast must spend time and effort breaking the joining bonds to allow them to get at the simple sugars they need for metabolism. This can be done chemically in an acid environment with heat. You will need a candy thermometer that goes up to about 350°F and a 2 qt (2.3L) saucepan. The ingredients are sugar, water, and citric acid to provide the acidic environment needed.
There are certain temperatures that relate to the process of candy making as shown in the table below. The terms refer to how the sugar will behave on cooling.
Term Used Temperature
Soft Ball 240°F 116 C
Hard Ball 260°F 127 C
Soft Crack 275°F 135 C
Hard Crack 300°F 149 C
To make a pound (0.45Kg) of Candi Sugar, measure a pound (0.45Kg) of sugar into the 2 qt saucepan. Add just enough water to make a thick syrup, and mix in a pinch of citric acid. Now bring to a boil and keep the temperature between hard ball and soft crack (260°-275°F) 127-135 C. As you boil, evaporation will cause the temperature to begin rising, so have a small amount of water on hand and add a tablespoon whenever the temperature gets above 275°F. 135 C
The color will gradually change from clear to light amber to deep red as the boil proceeds. Light candi sugar is a very light amber-yellow. This can take as little as 15 minutes. Dark candi sugar is very deep red. This can take several hours. Once you are at the color you desire, you stop adding water and let the temperature rise to hard crack (300°F) 149C. Once it hits hard crack, turn off the heat and pour it into a shallow pan (like a cake pan) lined with a sheet of waxed paper. As it cools it will go rock hard, and you can break it into ‘rocks’, bag in a ziplock bag and store in the freezer until you are ready to use it.
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