Help me make a Strong Beer

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Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby Pjam » Thu Jun 04, 2015 17:09

I've never made one before. Can you help me find a recipe?

When I say strong I had in mind something about 8% or 9%. Ideally a beer that hides the alcohol and nothing to tricky, no funky yeast etc.

Anything come to mind?
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby KevinS » Thu Jun 04, 2015 17:11

What kind of thing do you fancy? Light, dark, hoppy, malty? :)
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby GrahamT » Thu Jun 04, 2015 17:24

How about a nice DIPA?

You say no funky yeast, so that screws half the suggestions I may have :D but you're going to need a decent pitch rate whatever you're using. WLP007 is a really reliable and tolerant, highly attenuative but flocculant one to pick.

Perfectly acceptable to add maybe 5% sugar if you like in a DIPA. I now leave any sugar addition until around 48 hrs in the FV.

75% Pale malt; a bit of Vienna and/or some Cara/Munich/aromatic, as you fancy. BU:GU to around 1...

What do you fancy and what part of the process are you least sure about?

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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby KevinS » Thu Jun 04, 2015 17:29

GrahamT wrote:How about a nice DIPA?


This was going to be my suggestion as well :thumb:

The addition of sugar also removes some of the risk/challenge when it comes to fermenting high gravity beers. I personally just chuck in the sugar towards the end of the boil - but its just horses for courses.

I use Mangrove Jack's M07, which is rumoured to be the dried version of WP007. For grain bill I would use all pale malt (maybe a 50/50 mix of pale and lager malt to get a bit nicer colour) + 5-6% sugar, but I always loves some munich or vienna in a beer :)
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby robwalker » Thu Jun 04, 2015 17:49

Imperial stout for me. Little more needed than pale, choc and roasted barley malts, a solid yeast and plenty of time in the bottle. Hiding the alcohol comes down to good ageing.
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby Pjam » Thu Jun 04, 2015 17:54

GrahamT wrote:How about a nice DIPA?


Oooo DIPA. I don't know it. that's part of the problem, I haven't drunk many strong beers!

GrahamT wrote:What do you fancy and what part of the process are you least sure about?


I think not too dark and malty but I'm still open minded. I want to keep the process close to my 5% brewing method ..... is that reasonable?
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby Pjam » Thu Jun 04, 2015 17:56

Double IPA. Got it.

And I'm very interested :) :) :)
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby KevinS » Thu Jun 04, 2015 21:50

An easy-ish recipe formulation would be - assuming a standard 40 pint batch:

ABV: 9%
OG: 1.079
FG: 1.010 (which is low, but possible with the sugar and low mash)

GRAIN
95% pale malt of your choice (or throw in 5-10% Vienna, munich if you like. Crystal is used much less in DIPAS)
5% sugar - added late in the boil

Mash around 65c

HOPS
For a 90min boil - pick a high alpha US hop such as Columbus and add enough at 90mins/FWH to bitter to 90-100 IBUs.

No other hops in the boil. When you cool your wort - once it cools to below 79c add 100g of your chosen flavour/aroma hop (e.g citra, Galaxy, simcoe, mosaic - all the usual contenders!)

Then dry hop for 5 days with another 100g of your chosen hop.

You really cannot use too much hops with this type of recipe...

YEAST
The traditional option would be a neutral, high attenuating yeast such as US05 or WLP001. But what a lot of US Brewers are doing these days is (like Graham suggested) to use a high attenuating UK yeast. To give the same attenuation but slightly more interst to the beer


I'm a BIAB-er myself so if you do the same I can give some more specifics. But hopefully this is a good start! :)
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby Pjam » Thu Jun 04, 2015 22:09

KevinS wrote: But hopefully this is a good start! :)


It's a brilliant start. Thanks Kevin :thumb: And I've got everything I need in the store!! I've got US-05 but I'm not a great fan of it. I might slash out with some new yeast perhaps. It'll be my next brew. :D
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby graysalchemy » Thu Jun 04, 2015 22:19

The only reason to use US05 is so that the malt or the hops can shine but if you haven't got any late addition hops and a neutral grain bill then it would be better to use a yeast with some character.

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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby KevinS » Thu Jun 04, 2015 22:49

Yeah US05 can become a boring choice quite quickly. To give some idea of what US Brewery's are doing:

Stone Brewing Co - proprietry yeast, but WLP007 said to be very similar and recommended by Stone for homebrew clones. As I mentioned, Mangrove Jacks M07 is rumoured to be a dried version of this, but the jury's still out on that. I've have good experiences with it though.

Three Floyds / Firestone Walker - Both believed to use Wyeast 1968 (Fullers yeast)

Dogfish Head - WLP005 (ringwood) - although generally attenuates less than those above

So plenty to have a play with! :)
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby GrahamT » Thu Jun 04, 2015 23:53

I wholeheartedly agree with Kevin (and GA) though (edit) I'd add some later hops to the boil.

I'm a fan of a good bittering hop and saving the best stuff for later. On the yeast side, WLP007 is apparently Whitbread B strain, as is S-04 and a few others - not that it means you will get exactly the same result from each. WLP001='Chico'=US-05...apparently. My own brews would certainly concur with that. I'm sure I read that Ringwood is a multi-strain house yeast and that WLP005 only took the more attenuative strain. I had good success with it in a honey porter, mashing high. For the DIPA, I would (as I said) go for the 007 out of the yeasts I've tried but keep it fairly cool (say 18C) for the first 48 hours to avoid too many 'English' esters and pitch at a good rate. After that, maybe raise it a bit. That's what I've done on three occasions with that yeast and I find it much cleaner than US-05/WLP001... and much more flocculant.

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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby graysalchemy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 08:51

GrahamT wrote:I wholeheartedly agree with Kevin (and GA) though (edit) I'd add some later hops to the boil.


Just re read your post I didn't see the late additions :oops: :oops:.

Personally I don't find anything wrong with US05 especially if you are making a hoppy APA beer or even in a stout when you want the malt to come through with no esters.

However I do like a little ester in a standard bitter but if you want to control a yeast which is a little estery keep the temps at 18c for the first 48 hrs and this should limit them.

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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby robwalker » Fri Jun 05, 2015 14:10

Bear in mind those esters will amplify at high abv so use a yeast you already like!
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby Pjam » Fri Jun 05, 2015 14:50

I've got this brewing at the moment. With a different yeast could I scale it up for a DIPA?

For 19 litres

Original Gravity (OG): 1.062
Final Gravity (FG): 1.016
Alcohol (ABV): 6 %
Bitterness (IBU): 54 (Tinseth)

5000g 93.75% Maris Otter Malt
0.165g 3.12% Crystal 80
0.165g 3.12% Wheat malt

30g ....... Challenger (11% ) @ 70 Minutes (Boil)
15g ........East Kent Golding (5%) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
15g ........Fuggles (6%) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
15g ....... East Kent Golding (5%) @ 5 Minutes (Aroma)
15g ........Fuggles (6% ) @ 5 Minutes (Aroma)
15g ....... East Kent Golding (5%) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)
15g ........Fuggles (6% ) @0 Minutes (Aroma)

Yeast WLP002
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby KevinS » Fri Jun 05, 2015 15:05

Pjam wrote:I've got this brewing at the moment. With a different yeast could I scale it up for a DIPA?


If you were to try and scale this up to make some form of Imperial English IPA, I would be tempted to drop the crystal and wheat, and just use your chosen base malt, 5% munich and 5% sugar. I think that would give you some maltiness to work with the English hops but still taste in balance (as much as a double IPA can, anyway).

As for the hops, if this were a 9% beer, just bitter to 90-100 IBU using these hops and then use huge amounts for aroma and dry-hop. More than you think you should! :)

Thornbridge did a write up when they did something similar a bit ago:
https://thornbridge.wordpress.com/2014/ ... erial-ipa/
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby KevinS » Fri Jun 05, 2015 15:10

Although saying all that, if you were making a slightly weaker beer - say 7-7.5%, I think you could just scale up your original recipe and it would come out delicious. Yeast and all - just use a low mash temperature

Some more inspiration for you :D
http://lefthandbrewing.com/beers/400-lb-monkey/
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/stone-14th ... pa/123010/
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby Pjam » Fri Jun 05, 2015 15:44

I still quite like your idea of '75% Pale malt; a bit of Vienna and/or some Cara/Munich/aromatic'

KevinS wrote:As for the hops, if this were a 9% beer, just bitter to 90-100 IBU using these hops and then use huge amounts for aroma and dry-hop. More than you think you should! :)


Maybe this is an opportunity to use up those opened bags of hops.
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby KevinS » Fri Jun 05, 2015 15:46

Pjam wrote:Maybe this is an opportunity to use up those opened bags of hops.


That moment has arrived... :cheers:
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby Pjam » Fri Jun 05, 2015 18:02

KevinS wrote:That moment has arrived... :cheers:
:D

Hops are an approximation of what I've got (use em up hops) And yeast could well change ..... I'm open to change anything here in fact :)

DIPA #29

Original Gravity (OG): 1.087 (°P): 20.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.022 (°P): 5.6
Alcohol (ABV): 8.55 %
Colour (SRM): 7.8 (EBC): 15.4
Bitterness (IBU): 89.4 (Average)

87.38% Pale Ale Malt
8.74% Vienna
3.88% Aromatic Malt

2.9 g/L Challenger (11% Alpha) @ 80 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L Aurora (7% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L Columbus (14.2% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L East Kent Golding (4.7% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L Hersbrucker (2.8% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L Summit (14% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
7.1 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)

single step Infusion at 66°C for 120 Minutes. Boil for 82 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Safale US-05
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby GrahamT » Sat Jun 06, 2015 08:55

I'd keep the OG a little lower myself: I'd be surprised if you only got 75% attenuation with a 2 hour 66C mash. You may end up with a very big beer indeed, though maybe that's what you want! That's a shed load of dry hops too. 50g pellets gives more than enough aroma I've found, though I do find pellets far more effective, and I'm not sure it's worth losing the beer to go any higher with leaves.

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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby jaroporter » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:07

Pjam wrote:With a different yeast could I scale it up for a DIPA?


with that yeast you could (and should) scale it up for a DIPA!!!! :D :D
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby Pjam » Sat Jun 06, 2015 14:52

GrahamT wrote:I'd keep the OG a little lower myself: I'd be surprised if you only got 75% attenuation with a 2 hour 66C mash. 50g pellets gives more than enough aroma I've found, though I do find pellets far more effective, and I'm not sure it's worth losing the beer to go any higher with leaves.


I always do an overnight mash but the software doesn't have that option. And good point with the pellets .... bit by bit I'm getting to like them. 50g dry hop noted ;)
Thanks for the help guys. Tis appreciated :)
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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby graysalchemy » Sat Jun 06, 2015 19:15

Remember to mash at a lower temp than you would normally a 7% beer with a lower attenuation can be quite cloyingly sweet. Crystal malt is defiantly something to keep low or not use with higher abv beers.

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Re: Help me make a Strong Beer

Postby Pjam » Sat Jun 06, 2015 19:48

OK, thanks for that :thumb: Yeah malty and sweet I'm trying to avoid. I was looking at the Stone Arrogant Bastard recipe with interest too.
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