Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

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Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby The Goatreich » Wed Jun 28, 2017 19:20

Can anyone please point me in the right direction for my Hefeweizen recipe? I've made it twice now, and whilst it's been a nice easy drink, it's more like a pilsner in taste, whereas I was looking to get a nice light hefeweizen with bubblegum and banana flavours.

Batch size: 19l
2kg German pilsner malt
2kg pale wheat malt
50g tettnang for 90 minute boil
WLP300 yeast

Mashed at approximately 66C for 2 hours

The WLP300 yeast was woken up with a 1 litre starter as it was taken from a previous hefeweizen slurry, rinsed and stored in the fridge. The starter smelled great when it was getting going, so I've no worries that the yeast was bad.

Pitched the starter at 22C and then dropped the wort to 20C. I increased the fermentation temp by 0.5C every 24 hours for a week until it reached 23C, and it stayed there for another 6 days. Lots of sulphur smells coming from the strong fermenation, but nothing like that left in the beer so it must have all been blown off in the ferment.

Efficiency was ultra low for this particular one, and I was left with a 3.8% beer, however it still tastes great....just not a hefeweizen.

Any tips please?
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Re: Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby AFewTooMany » Wed Jun 28, 2017 21:05

Best article I've seen on the matter if you've got 10 mins

http://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-b ... d-to-know/

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Re: Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby Aleman » Thu Jun 29, 2017 09:50

Too much yeast, fermented to warm.

no ferrulic acid rest.

WLP300 can be very clean, for that reason I prefer WLP380
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Re: Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby The Goatreich » Thu Jun 29, 2017 09:57

Aleman wrote:Too much yeast, fermented to warm.

no ferrulic acid rest.

WLP300 can be very clean, for that reason I prefer WLP380


You think a 0.5l starter might have been better?

I did some research into the bubblegum flavour before brewing and most of the concensus seemed to be that you get it by fermenting warm, raising as you go, which is why I did that. What temp would you recommend this was done at.

I'm not sure how I'd do an acid rest in a cool box mash tun. I've only ever done single infusion mashes, but I'll have a look into that.
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Re: Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby Saccharomyces » Thu Jun 29, 2017 13:10

It isn't clear if you actually made a starter - you reused a quantity of yeast which you added to 1 l of wort.

If the quantity of viable yeast was under what you would get in a standard pack, then yes, maybe you made a starter and added too much yeast (140-200 billion, 7-10 million cells/ml).

If the yeast you harvested was more than you get in a standard pack, you definitely had too many yeast and it is doubtful you made a starter culture, more of a reviver/wake-up culture.

From Hieronymus' Wheat - German brewing literature suggests pitching 4 million to 7 million cells per milliliter in brewing a standard Bavarian hefeweizen. Weissbierbrauerei Schneider currently pitches 7 million in Schneider Weisse Original, a 12.8 °P beer.
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Re: Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby The Goatreich » Thu Jun 29, 2017 16:06

I think I made a starter...this was the process:

- last time I made the hefeweizen I kept the trub and yeast cake in the bucket and added a litre of boiled and cooled water. Swilled it all around and poured into a smaller container.
- I left this to settle out for 15-20 mins and poured the top milky fluid into another smaller container.
- I then chilled this other container in the fridge, which created the yeast at the bottom, and the spent beer on the top
- I then pour away the spent beer and fill a small container with the yeast (the container is a urinal sample pot to give an indication of size) and keep this in the fridge until I need it.

Then to make the starter I:
- take the yeast pot from the fridge to warm to room temp naturally
- add a cup of DME to 2 pints of water and boil for 10 minutes
- cool this down in a water bath until it reaches room temp
- add the yeast when they are both at room temp
- swirl the mixture to add oxygen and keep in the fermentation fridge at around 21C for 24 hours - periodically swirling it all up to add more oxygen

Does this sound wrong? I actually thought I had that pretty much nailed to be honest, but perhaps not.

For scale, that's a 1 litre Erlenmeyer flask - also pictured is a tub of US05 and a tub of Nottingham reclaimed in the same way:
Image
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Re: Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby brugen » Thu Jun 29, 2017 21:57

I've made a Weisse two months ago based on a recipe in German Wheat Beer by Eric Warner and it turned out really well.

A couple of differences from you.

I used a step mash. 25mins at 50C, 30 mins at 64C, 30 mins at 71C and mash out at 77C.

I also used WLP 300 and made a starter. Rather than use a yeast cake I kept some of the starter for my next brew so it's fresh every time.
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Re: Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby The Goatreich » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:13

brugen wrote:I've made a Weisse two months ago based on a recipe in German Wheat Beer by Eric Warner and it turned out really well.

A couple of differences from you.

I used a step mash. 25mins at 50C, 30 mins at 64C, 30 mins at 71C and mash out at 77C.

I also used WLP 300 and made a starter. Rather than use a yeast cake I kept some of the starter for my next brew so it's fresh every time.


Can you do a step mash in a coolbox mash tun? It's not something I've ever attempted.

I don't understand your comment about the starter. You made one starter, but only used some of it for the one brew and kept the rest? I thought you had to use a starter within the first 24-48 hours otherwise it actually starts fermenting.
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Re: Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby brugen » Fri Jun 30, 2017 21:58

The Goatreich wrote:
Can you do a step mash in a coolbox mash tun? It's not something I've ever attempted.

I don't understand your comment about the starter. You made one starter, but only used some of it for the one brew and kept the rest? I thought you had to use a starter within the first 24-48 hours otherwise it actually starts fermenting.


I used to use a coolbox mash tun and agree step mashing is extremely difficult. I found maintaining 66C difficult enough. I now have a Braumeister so step mashing is easy.

For starters I use WLP yeasts. I buy one and build it up with DME for a couple of days in an Erlenmeyer flask. I then use 2/3rds in the brew I'm doing. I keep 1/3 in a Kilner jar (after pouring off excess liquid) in the fridge. The next time I want this yeast I use the Kilner jar to build up a starter and repeat the process. I repeat this process for 4 or 5 brews then stop and buy a new WLP and begin again.
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Re: Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby Saccharomyces » Sat Jul 01, 2017 22:09

those tubs look quite big, how many grams of yeast were you using in the starter?
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Re: Hefeweizen just tasting like a nice pilsner

Postby The Goatreich » Sun Aug 27, 2017 15:13

Apologies for not seeing your previous reply.

I've just weighed one of the yeast containers and it weighed approx 60g not including the container.

Forgetting all about this thread I've just brewed another hefeweizen with the WLP300, again with a 1 litre starter. Oops, I forgot that I was going to try a 0.5 litre to see if this made a difference.

What sort of temperature should I be aiming for? Is it worth only pitching half of this starter?
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