Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

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Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby StevieDS » Thu Aug 28, 2014 13:30

I recently read THIS ARTICLE regarding using massive late hopping to get all the bitterness for your beer and was really intrigued, so I came up with this recipe for AG#20, based loosely on the recipe at the end of the article.

I've used fuggles and EKG rather than the american hops (more to my taste) and would like some feedback on the recipe please. Has anyone tried this method, all the hops added during the last 20 mins of the boil? Anything I should be aware of?

Late Hopped IPA
English IPA

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 18.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.160
Total Hops (g): 250.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.054 (°P): 13.3
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (°P): 3.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.31 %
Colour (SRM): 8.3 (EBC): 16.4
Bitterness (IBU): 43.9 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
3.500 kg Maris Otter Malt (84.13%)
0.220 kg Amber Malt (5.29%)
0.220 kg Crystal 60 (5.29%)
0.220 kg Wheat Malt (5.29%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g East Kent Golding (7% AA) @ 20 Minutes (9 IBU)
30.0 g Fuggles (4.8% AA) @ 20 Minutes (9 IBU)
35.0 g East Kent Golding @ 10 Minutes (10 IBU)
50.0 g Fuggles @ 10 Minutes (9 IBU)
30.0 g East Kent Golding @ 0 Minutes (3 IBU)
45.0 g Fuggles @ 0 Minutes (3 IBU)

15.0 g East Kent Golding For 10 Days (Dry Hop)
25.0 g Fuggles For 10 Days (Dry Hop)

Single step Infusion at 65°C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 17°C with Wyeast 1056 - American Ale


Recipe Generated with BrewMate

BTW I recommend reading the article linked above, fascinating stuff :cheers:

"The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Planning: Brett Amarillo Smash
Fermenting: AG52 Brett Saison v2, AG41 Lambic v2.0
Conditioning: AG51 Brett Saison, AG48 Biere de Garde, AG42 Westvleteren XII Clone, AG29 Lambic v1.0
Drinking: AG51 Brett Saison v1, AG53 Standard Bitter
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby GrowlingDog » Thu Aug 28, 2014 13:40

I have done a brew with just late hops, last 5 minutes only, recipe below. Apart from the fact I managed to massively overcarbonate the beer when I bottled it turned out quite well. It was a lot more bitter than expected though, I'm not convinced BrewMate calculates the hop utlization very well with late hopping.

Galactic Pale Ale

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 50.0
Total Grain (kg): 15.000
Total Hops (g): 800.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.070 (°P): 17.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.018 (°P): 4.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.88 %
Colour (SRM): 7.0 (EBC): 13.8
Bitterness (IBU): 54.3 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
8.000 kg Pale Malt
3.000 kg Vienna
3.000 kg Munich I
1.000 kg Wheat Malt

Hop Bill
----------------
200.0 g Galaxy Leaf (13.4% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (4 g/L)
200.0 g Galaxy Leaf (13.4% Alpha) @ 2 Minutes (Boil) (4 g/L)
200.0 g Galaxy Leaf (13.4% Alpha) @ 1 Minutes (Boil) (4 g/L)
200.0 g Galaxy Leaf (13.4% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (4 g/L)

Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes.

Fermented at 20°C with Neales Ale Yeast 2
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby Joe1002 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 13:43

I have also done a late hop brew. It was a 23l batch and the ONLY hop addition was 200g Galaxy at flameout for about 30 mins. It was a lot more bitter than expected.

A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby StevieDS » Thu Aug 28, 2014 13:58

Interesting :hmm:

So maybe i should reduce the expected bitterness by 15 IBU or so?

Maybe that's why the recipe at the end of Jamil's article was only around 24 IBU.

"The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Planning: Brett Amarillo Smash
Fermenting: AG52 Brett Saison v2, AG41 Lambic v2.0
Conditioning: AG51 Brett Saison, AG48 Biere de Garde, AG42 Westvleteren XII Clone, AG29 Lambic v1.0
Drinking: AG51 Brett Saison v1, AG53 Standard Bitter
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby Partial_to_Mash » Thu Aug 28, 2014 14:22

Did you leave the hops in hot wort after flame out for long? I don't have a chiller and found that, quite logically, if you leave high alpha hops sitting in hot wort for a while, you get a lot of bitterness from them. This effect would be reduced by to chilling to 80*C before adding the hops. I tend to use lower alpha hops for the very late additions now, and/or chill to 80*C in the sink before adding the flameout hops.
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby Aleman » Thu Aug 28, 2014 14:28

The other issue that I have found with late hop only additions is that all you seem to get in the way of flavour and aroma is marmalade and resin, great if that's what you want, but I've recently tasted two beers brewed with the same hop (Galaxy) one with massive amounts of late hops and the other normally brewed (I think), two different beers one had a wonderful balance with a lime and citrus aroma / flavour, the other was just bitter marmalade and resin

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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby GrowlingDog » Thu Aug 28, 2014 14:40

Aleman wrote:The other issue that I have found with late hop only additions is that all you seem to get in the way of flavour and aroma is marmalade and resin, great if that's what you want, but I've recently tasted two beers brewed with the same hop (Galaxy) one with massive amounts of late hops and the other normally brewed (I think), two different beers one had a wonderful balance with a line and citrus aroma / flavour, the other was just bitter marmalade and resin


I can't disagree with that.

I have also recently tasted a normally brewed beer with Galaxy, Dennis Kings Galaxy Delight and it is a lot more balanced than my late hopped beer.
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby StevieDS » Thu Aug 28, 2014 15:25

There doesn't seem to be a lot of love for this technique. For those who have tried it, is it worth bothering or do I just go for a more normal hop schedule?
I've struggled to get that real depth of hop flavour and aroma I enjoy in an IPA and thought this would be the ticket.

"The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Planning: Brett Amarillo Smash
Fermenting: AG52 Brett Saison v2, AG41 Lambic v2.0
Conditioning: AG51 Brett Saison, AG48 Biere de Garde, AG42 Westvleteren XII Clone, AG29 Lambic v1.0
Drinking: AG51 Brett Saison v1, AG53 Standard Bitter
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby CraftyTim » Thu Aug 28, 2014 19:35

Partial_to_Mash wrote: I tend to use lower alpha hops for the very late additions now, and/or chill to 80*C in the sink before adding the flameout hops.


+1 and some gypsum in the boil.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy :D
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby Asalpaws » Thu Aug 28, 2014 21:27

I've tried this a couple of times, agree with Aleman, the beers came out really harsh and resinous but maybe it's as others have said down to alpha conversion as it's cooling. I find dry hopping is good to get that super hoppy flavour. However it's easy to introduce oxidation off flavours (at least it is for me!) T
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby rlemkin » Fri Aug 29, 2014 16:30

I'm generally do a 50-50 split IBU wise with a FWH bittering addition, but today I'm brewing my Axe Edge inspired IPA and hops at 15, 5 and 0 (cooled to 80c) and Dry Hop only. Shall see how it works out.
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby StevieDS » Fri Aug 29, 2014 20:24

I think I'll maybe leave trying this method for another time and just go a bit more traditional for this brew.
I've never been overly happy with my attempts at an English IPA, always been a bit lacking in hoppiness (sp?) even with dry hopping, I want to get this one right.
Rlemkin I've not tried fwh yet, but I've done a fair bit of reading about it. From what I can see opinion seems divided on whether it makes much difference to a "standard" brew, although with this late hop method it may help balance it a little :hmm:

"The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."

Planning: Brett Amarillo Smash
Fermenting: AG52 Brett Saison v2, AG41 Lambic v2.0
Conditioning: AG51 Brett Saison, AG48 Biere de Garde, AG42 Westvleteren XII Clone, AG29 Lambic v1.0
Drinking: AG51 Brett Saison v1, AG53 Standard Bitter
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Re: Recipe Using Jamil's Late-Hops-Only Technique

Postby rlemkin » Fri Aug 29, 2014 21:10

StevieDS wrote:I think I'll maybe leave trying this method for another time and just go a bit more traditional for this brew.
I've never been overly happy with my attempts at an English IPA, always been a bit lacking in hoppiness (sp?) even with dry hopping, I want to get this one right.
Rlemkin I've not tried fwh yet, but I've done a fair bit of reading about it. From what I can see opinion seems divided on whether it makes much difference to a "standard" brew, although with this late hop method it may help balance it a little :hmm:


My attitude towards FWH, if the recipe has a 60 min addition, is why not?

Anecdotal, but I comparing the wort prior to fermentation I much prefer the late hops bittering of my brew today, even at similar IBU levels to some others. A bit of a distinctive bitter taste that feels familiar from some commercial hopped up IPAs.
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