Witbier questions AG4

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Witbier questions AG4

Postby Monte Cristo » Wed Jul 30, 2014 13:30

Hi Chaps,
I am going to have a go at a Witbier and found a recipe in the Greg Hughes book 'Home brew beer' i have added it to my Beersmith but have a couple of questions about it.
1. He suggests using Wyeast 3944, but i wanted to use what i have in stock which is a Mangrove Jack Bavarian wheat yeast - would this do the job?
2. do I need to add a protofloc tab as the beer is suppose to be cloudy?

Looking to brew later in the week, all comments welcome.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 28.41 l
Post Boil Volume: 26.52 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Bottling Volume: 22.50 l
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 6.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 13.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2294.67 g Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.0 EBC) Grain 1 50.0 %
2294.67 g Wheat Malt, Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 2 50.0 %
31.88 g Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 13.8 IBUs
1.00 Items Protofloc tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 4 -
25.00 g Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 5 -
25.00 g Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 6 -
1.0 pkg Bavarian Wheat Yeast (Mangrove Jack's #M Yeast 7 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 4589.35 g
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 33.72 l of water at 68.3 C 64.4 C 90 min
Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 7 min 75.6 C 10 min

Sparge: If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com

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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby GrowlingDog » Wed Jul 30, 2014 16:31

I do tend to use a protofloc tablet as I tend to drink Wheat beers quite young. I have left it out before and I think it was a bit too cloudy.

I think the yeast should be fine, it will probably give a slightly different flavour profile but not enough to worry about.

I've never used either of them yeasts before though, with any luck someone with more knowledge than me well be along.
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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby pittsy » Wed Jul 30, 2014 16:41

I'm of the opposite view , that yeast will make a spiced weiss bier which has banana , vanilla and some clove while the witbier yeast ( i like wlp 400 ) will give no esters (banana) clove and a tartness that adds to the spice , not gonna work to well imo however drop the coriander and you have an orange weiss bier which works ok . I wouldn't use protofloc tab myself , boil for 80/90 mins as it's a high wheat bill and that will help stabilise the protein
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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby GrowlingDog » Wed Jul 30, 2014 16:43

I would listen to pittsy, he's a lot more knowledgeable on this style of beer than me.
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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby Monte Cristo » Wed Jul 30, 2014 18:15

Thanks Growling dog and Pittsy for the quick response,

I might just order some WLP 400 as it will be my first Wit so it should be authentic i suppose, I will save the Mangrove jack for another brew. Any suggestion on the best place to get WLP 400 as my LHBS doesn't sell liquid yeast? :hat:

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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby GrowlingDog » Wed Jul 30, 2014 20:49

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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby pittsy » Wed Jul 30, 2014 21:18

Errm well seeing as you are changing your recipe a little you may want to use some flaked wheat which gives it that creamy smooth taste and if it was me i'd use pilsner malt ( not lager malt) which gives a more crisp twack to the mouthfeel , I've done a fair few with pale ale malt and it's good but pilsner is better .
Pilsner 50%
wheat malt 30%
flaked wheat 20%
ibu 15
I've used unmalted wheat and i really think flaked makes the best wit . :whistle:
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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby andyco » Wed Jul 30, 2014 22:48

Don't forget your porridge oats ....if you have them, plain rolled cereal oats not ready brek.The oats with the flaked wheat will give you the mouthfeel your looking for :thumb:
I've found wlp400 to be a bit of pain and slow finisher so for me I prefer wy3944 but each to his own :thumb:
Liquid Yeast is the way to go for a decent wit but saying that when making a Bluemoon clone, S-04 is them way to go :thumb:

Andy

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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby Monte Cristo » Thu Jul 31, 2014 18:24

Right Chaps,

After looking at your advice i have shelved Greg's book for the time been and ordered some WLP400 from The Malt Miller along with some flaked wheat. The revised brew now looks like this:-

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2345.55 g Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 1 50.0 %
1407.33 g Wheat Malt, Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 2 30.0 %
938.22 g Wheat, Flaked (3.2 EBC) Grain 3 20.0 %
31.13 g Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 80.0 min Hop 4 14.3 IBUs
25.00 g Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 5 -
25.00 g Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 6 -
1.0 pkg Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) [35 Yeast 7 -

A couple more questions if I may,

Have got some rolled oats, what quantity do i need?

Now the recipe has changed any idea which mash profile to use in Beersmith or just what sort of mash?

Can i pitch this yeast directly?

Looking forward to getting cracking with this brew
Cheers Chaps :hat:

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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby pittsy » Thu Jul 31, 2014 18:32

Around 64c for 70 mins then 71c for 15 mins will do or 63c for 40 mins then 68c for 40 more plus 71c for 15 mins . I would also drop the bittering hops and use around 25 g at 15 mins bit keeping it to around 15 ibu .
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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby Monte Cristo » Thu Jul 31, 2014 19:22

pittsy wrote:Around 64c for 70 mins then 71c for 15 mins will do or 63c for 40 mins then 68c for 40 more plus 71c for 15 mins . I would also drop the bittering hops and use around 25 g at 15 mins bit keeping it to around 15 ibu .


Cheers Pittsy, Have dropped the bittering hops to 22g at start and added 25g at 15 mins which is giving me 15 IBU in beer smith. :hat:

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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby chrissyr63 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 23:12

Hi,

Sorry to butt in but could I ask pittsy - is the 30/20 % mix for the wheat malt/flaked (or rather a 3 to 2) ratio one that ban be used on other recipes for wheat use? Does this give same wheat flavour level but add the cream smooth you mentioned?

C
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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby andyco » Thu Jul 31, 2014 23:30

My go to wit recipe is...

2kg pale/lager malt
2kg flaked wheat
1kg wheat malt
500g porridge oats
30g sazz 90mins
20-25g orange peel
20-25g crushed corriander seed.
I have also added coriander into to the keg ..sort of dry hopping style ... :whistle:

I mash a bit higher than pittsy at 66c for 90mins and than mash out at 72c for around 10mins.

Andy

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Re: Witbier questions AG4

Postby pittsy » Fri Aug 01, 2014 07:33

chrissyr63 wrote:Hi,

Sorry to butt in but could I ask pittsy - is the 30/20 % mix for the wheat malt/flaked (or rather a 3 to 2) ratio one that ban be used on other recipes for wheat use? Does this give same wheat flavour level but add the cream smooth you mentioned?

C

wheat malt has a sharp tartness to it and flaked wheat is more smoother . It's a choice so you can do any way you like really . All you need to do is have enough barley malt ( pilsner/ pale ale etc ) to help with mashing . You shouldn't really go over 70% wheat to barley in most recipes while wits tend to have 50% wheat to barley . The ratio i use is after many recipes and it's seems best to my tastes .

P.s I wouldn't be putting coriander in the fv , not clean , risky . !5 min of boil is when to add spice , many old recipes use very little spice , around 5 g per 23 litres batch . My self i like a little more , i use approx 25g for 20 litres .
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