Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

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Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Thu May 11, 2017 12:29

So we've got a small competition coming up between our Leeds lot and the guys from London Amateurs. Just a fun competition brew! Do any of you represent them?

It was decided that as NEIPA is a very popular style at the moment, that this is what we would all brew.
I've done a bit of reading up, and would appreciate feedback :thumb:
The last one i did was nice but nothing like the style!

Brew length: 23L (BIAB)
ABV: (See write up below)
OG: (See write up below)
FG: (See write up below)
IBU: (See write up below)
Colour: 10


Grain Bill

5kg Propino
1kg Flaked Oats
300g Carapils
??g Dextrose

Mash Temp: 65C

Hops

Denali // Citra // Mosaic // Azacca <-- 5g each at 5mins

Denali // Citra // Mosaic // Azacca <-- 35g each at flameout (80C) for 20 mins

Denali // Citra // Mosaic // Azacca <-- 30g each dry hop at high krausen

Denali // Citra // Mosaic // Azacca <-- 30g each dry hop post fermentation for 5 days


Yeast

Vermont Ale (slurry pitch from previous brew, no starter)

Water

Aiming for 2:1 Chloride:Sulphate and 100+ calcium


So, the reason I have left the information blank at the top is because I actually don't know where i should be aiming to be honest.
I seem to be finding conflicting views on where the IBU count should be. As it stands at the moment, I am looking at 50 IBU roughly with the grain bill/hop schedule above, but with 4x 100g packs of those hops, I am free to move them about accordingly.

The other thing is the use of dextrose.
I haven't used it before but a few recipes seem to call for it, and recently the guy who won the fruit IPA competition (beating 2 professionals to first place, scoring a 57/60) said he uses it for most of his IPA's now. Roughly 100g or so for 5.5% - 6% he reckons. I have never used it before, so tips here would be great. It also doesn't appear on the beersmith app unless it goes by a different name, so for that reason, I can't really calculate my OG/FG or finishing ABV as a result... :hmm: :hmm:
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby ockelford » Thu May 11, 2017 17:35

Interesting, i just found this today...

http://thecraftbeerchannel.com

Check out the neipa video, lots of pointers. Interesting about your chloride heavy way, whats you reason? Anyhow, i also read recently, that the hops need to be exposed to active yeast to convert the aromatic can't mpoinds that give the jammy flavour of this style. Recipe looks great, though, Im doing something not dissimilar over the next few days.

Edit... http://thecraftbeerchannel.com/gipsy-hi ... pa-recipe/

R
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby jkp » Thu May 11, 2017 18:56

Dextrose might come up as glucose in Beersmith, or brewing sugar, white sugar, cane sugar etc

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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby HTH1975 » Thu May 11, 2017 20:31

I'd be looking at the following:

* OG 1.060
* FG 1.016
* Mash 66-67C

I'd be wanting some light crystal for sweetness.

Doubt I'd go 2:1 in favour of chloride:sulphate - just think you'll lose the hops a bit. I'd be aiming for 1:1.5 in favour of sulphate.

Using lots of late hops and also hops with low co-humulone to avoid harsh bitterness.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Thu May 11, 2017 21:39

ockelford wrote:Interesting, i just found this today...

http://thecraftbeerchannel.com

Check out the neipa video, lots of pointers. Interesting about your chloride heavy way, whats you reason? Anyhow, i also read recently, that the hops need to be exposed to active yeast to convert the aromatic can't mpoinds that give the jammy flavour of this style. Recipe looks great, though, Im doing something not dissimilar over the next few days.

Edit... http://thecraftbeerchannel.com/gipsy-hi ... pa-recipe/

R


I believe it has something to do with softer mouthfeel.still need to read up a little more but it will be 1:1 if not heavier on the chloride. Gonna nerd up a little more tomorrow!
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Thu May 11, 2017 21:39

jkp wrote:Dextrose might come up as glucose in Beersmith, or brewing sugar, white sugar, cane sugar etc


I found it in the end thanks. It was under grains strangely!
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Thu May 11, 2017 21:41

HTH1975 wrote:I'd be looking at the following:

* OG 1.060
* FG 1.016
* Mash 66-67C

I'd be wanting some light crystal for sweetness.

Doubt I'd go 2:1 in favour of chloride:sulphate - just think you'll lose the hops a bit. I'd be aiming for 1:1.5 in favour of sulphate.

Using lots of late hops and also hops with low co-humulone to avoid harsh bitterness.


Thanks mate. Going to spend some more reading time tomorrow before I set the final recipe. I think 50 ibu is still too high so I'll play about with it a bit. My friend just brewed one at 10 ibu - that sounds ridiculous!!
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby HTH1975 » Thu May 11, 2017 21:53

xCamel xSlayer wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:I'd be looking at the following:

* OG 1.060
* FG 1.016
* Mash 66-67C

I'd be wanting some light crystal for sweetness.

Doubt I'd go 2:1 in favour of chloride:sulphate - just think you'll lose the hops a bit. I'd be aiming for 1:1.5 in favour of sulphate.

Using lots of late hops and also hops with low co-humulone to avoid harsh bitterness.


Thanks mate. Going to spend some more reading time tomorrow before I set the final recipe. I think 50 ibu is still too high so I'll play about with it a bit. My friend just brewed one at 10 ibu - that sounds ridiculous!!


At 1.060 OG I still reckon you'd want an IBU of 40-50. It'll be softer and fruitier with the hops only added at the end (or last 15 mins).

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby ockelford » Fri May 12, 2017 08:19

HTH1975 wrote:
xCamel xSlayer wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:I'd be looking at the following:

* OG 1.060
* FG 1.016
* Mash 66-67C

I'd be wanting some light crystal for sweetness.

Doubt I'd go 2:1 in favour of chloride:sulphate - just think you'll lose the hops a bit. I'd be aiming for 1:1.5 in favour of sulphate.

Using lots of late hops and also hops with low co-humulone to avoid harsh bitterness.


Thanks mate. Going to spend some more reading time tomorrow before I set the final recipe. I think 50 ibu is still too high so I'll play about with it a bit. My friend just brewed one at 10 ibu - that sounds ridiculous!!


At 1.060 OG I still reckon you'd want an IBU of 40-50. It'll be softer and fruitier with the hops only added at the end (or last 15 mins).


Actually a bg balance of .5 is on style for neipa, the concept is in many ways drifting towards hefe, with lots of wheat and a velvetty texture. also first wort hopping is probably a good idea, it apparent smooths the bitterness. The heady topper and other half examples i had recently were incredibly smoooth, hardly any crisp bite, just soupy, jammy flavour all the way....
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Fri May 12, 2017 08:24

ockelford wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:
xCamel xSlayer wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:I'd be looking at the following:

* OG 1.060
* FG 1.016
* Mash 66-67C

I'd be wanting some light crystal for sweetness.

Doubt I'd go 2:1 in favour of chloride:sulphate - just think you'll lose the hops a bit. I'd be aiming for 1:1.5 in favour of sulphate.

Using lots of late hops and also hops with low co-humulone to avoid harsh bitterness.


Thanks mate. Going to spend some more reading time tomorrow before I set the final recipe. I think 50 ibu is still too high so I'll play about with it a bit. My friend just brewed one at 10 ibu - that sounds ridiculous!!


At 1.060 OG I still reckon you'd want an IBU of 40-50. It'll be softer and fruitier with the hops only added at the end (or last 15 mins).


Actually a bg balance of .5 is on style for neipa, the concept is in many ways drifting towards hefe, with lots of wheat and a velvetty texture. also first wort hopping is probably a good idea, it apparent smooths the bitterness. The heady topper and other half examples i had recently were incredibly smoooth, hardly any crisp bite, just soupy, jammy flavour all the way....

What's a "bg balance" mate? Is the bitterness : gravity ratio?

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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Fri May 12, 2017 10:15

I also remember Rlemkin posting this the last time I had a crack at it. I went in blind and used 05 by mistake, but in terms of treating:

rlemkin wrote:Generally with a NE IPA you want to flip the Chloride to Sulphite ratio around. I generally aim for 2:1, but two of chloride to one of sulphate. Either way it's relatively minor compared to yeast, hops and alllll the oats ;)
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby ockelford » Fri May 12, 2017 13:47

xCamel xSlayer wrote:I also remember Rlemkin posting this the last time I had a crack at it. I went in blind and used 05 by mistake, but in terms of treating:

rlemkin wrote:Generally with a NE IPA you want to flip the Chloride to Sulphite ratio around. I generally aim for 2:1, but two of chloride to one of sulphate. Either way it's relatively minor compared to yeast, hops and alllll the oats ;)


Yeah, brewersfriend app uses it, as do many others and as do brewers. Often the ibus being close to the gravity points above 1000 gives a balanced ale. Styles vary though. Eg hefeweizzen is usuall much lower bitterness units that gravity points.
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby jkp » Fri May 12, 2017 13:54

As far as I know the flipped ratio of Chloride to Sulfate is for two reasons; a smoother/softer bitterness and also for the hazy look. High Chloride levels apparently impede yeast flocculation.

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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Fri May 12, 2017 14:09

I've seen a few recipes by various people (some claiming to be medal placers in various comps) which have a 2:1 chloride:sulphate ratio.
I'll give it a go this time around and just see what comes of it.
With that in mind, should I be looking at slightly higher IBU in that case, to compensate for the higher chloride ratio?
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Fri May 12, 2017 14:11

ockelford wrote:
xCamel xSlayer wrote:I also remember Rlemkin posting this the last time I had a crack at it. I went in blind and used 05 by mistake, but in terms of treating:

rlemkin wrote:Generally with a NE IPA you want to flip the Chloride to Sulphite ratio around. I generally aim for 2:1, but two of chloride to one of sulphate. Either way it's relatively minor compared to yeast, hops and alllll the oats ;)


Yeah, brewersfriend app uses it, as do many others and as do brewers. Often the ibus being close to the gravity points above 1000 gives a balanced ale. Styles vary though. Eg hefeweizzen is usuall much lower bitterness units that gravity points.



If I have understood this correctly then, If I have a 1060 OG, should I be aiming at 30 IBU (for this style?)
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby gregles » Sun May 14, 2017 21:33

xCamel xSlayer wrote:If I have understood this correctly then, If I have a 1060 OG, should I be aiming at 30 IBU (for this style?)


This chart should help with balancing beers

http://finnhillbrewing.blogspot.co.uk/2 ... atios.html
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Re: Leeds vs LAB Competiton Brew

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Mon May 15, 2017 09:13

gregles wrote:
xCamel xSlayer wrote:If I have understood this correctly then, If I have a 1060 OG, should I be aiming at 30 IBU (for this style?)


This chart should help with balancing beers

http://finnhillbrewing.blogspot.co.uk/2 ... atios.html

Thanks!
I'll certainly refer to this in future.

The issue with the NEIPA is that it is so new to most people so trying to work out where you need to be, is quite a bit of guess work.

I went for 40 IBU in the end, with the only hop addition coming at 80C for 20 mins.
I'll dry hop and high krausen and then again at the end of fermentation.
Fingers crossed!
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