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Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 14:53
by jkp
Hi

I suppose the title says it all. I'd like to brew a salted caramel brown porter and would appreciate any advice. I'm looking to have chocolate and caramel flavour but not be overly sweet.

Looking at KyleT's recent Brown Ale recipe here I came up with something like this with the malts I have,

OG=1.047
FG=1.014
IBU=25
ABV=4.5%
SRM=22

Pale Ale Malt (Belgian) 80%
Crystal 25L 6.25% (not sure what the name of this malt is but I got it free)
CaraMunich II 6.25%
Brown Malt 2.5%
Chocolate Malt 5%

Mash at 67c (I could step mash it 65/68c)

Boil for 90min with just a bittering addition.
Then 28g (1oz) salt at 5min

Ferment with WLP002, London ESB, or Wyeast Irish Ale.

The idea was to get dark caramel and toffee from the CaraMunich II and light caramel from the C25 (I hope it's a bit like CaraRed). I have some Caramelized sugar syrup that I could add for more caramel and to dry the beer out a bit. I also have biscuit/Victory/Aromatic but I didn't want to over complicate it.

Any advice would be very welcome. Cheers Jon

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 15:08
by Kyle_T
My best porter recipe to date is 76% Pale Malt, 12% Brown Malt, 7% Crystal and 5% Chocolate, 35 IBU, it is based more on the London style but I could imagine it would work with salted caramel.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 15:14
by jkp
Kyle_T wrote:My best porter recipe to date is 76% Pale Malt, 12% Brown Malt, 7% Crystal and 5% Chocolate, 35 IBU, it is based more on the London style but I could imagine it would work with salted caramel.


I've not had access to Brown Malt until now. What does it bring in terms of flavours?

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 15:18
by john luc
Quite strong in flavor, 10% can bring a strong coffee taste. What are you going to use for the salt part of this beer.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 15:24
by jkp
john luc wrote:Quite strong in flavor, 10% can bring a strong coffee taste. What are you going to use for the salt part of this beer.


the salt part is easy.... just add salt

not sure I want too much coffee though :hmm:

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 15:53
by john luc
Your 2.5% looks about right.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 16:20
by Kyle_T
jkp wrote:
john luc wrote:Quite strong in flavor, 10% can bring a strong coffee taste. What are you going to use for the salt part of this beer.


the salt part is easy.... just add salt

not sure I want too much coffee though :hmm:


10% isn't a lot. It's not that strong in its flavour. 20% is when you start to push the boundaries a bit, it's like anything, you have to let it mellow and mature first.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 16:49
by jkp
Ok, 10% it is then and I'll cut the caramel malts down to 8%. It could even turn into more of a Salted Caramel Mocha Porter.....

Any thoughts on the yeast? I was leaning towards the Irish Ale Yeast, although WLP002 obviously works in a London Porter.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 18:28
by john luc
Can't go wrong with WLP002.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 18:29
by robwalker
I'd go back to basics and hit the whole thing with about 20%-25% crystal malt myself. Or caramelize a chunk of the wort.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 18:56
by jkp
robwalker wrote:I'd go back to basics and hit the whole thing with about 20%-25% crystal malt myself. Or caramelize a chunk of the wort.


I assumed that level of crystal malt would leave it cloyingly sweet. Have you tried something like that?

Never done wort caramelization, but that did cross my mind.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 20:09
by HTH1975
As suggested above, defo kettle caramelisation for the flavour you want. I've done it once and imo it's not a flavour you can get with (speciality) malts alone.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 20:11
by HTH1975
I'd also agree with the brown malt suggestion.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 20:12
by HTH1975
I'd go with a clean yeast and mash quite high, 67-68c

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 20:21
by RokDok
I'd like to know how this tastes- please report when it's done.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 16:53
by jkp
HTH1975 wrote:I'd also agree with the brown malt suggestion.


Just to be clear. You mean the suggestion to use 10-12% brown malt?

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 17:04
by jkp
HTH1975 wrote:As suggested above, defo kettle caramelisation for the flavour you want. I've done it once and imo it's not a flavour you can get with (speciality) malts alone.


So just boil to reduce the first runnings by half. Is that the idea?

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 19:52
by HTH1975
jkp wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:I'd also agree with the brown malt suggestion.


Just to be clear. You mean the suggestion to use 10-12% brown malt?


I use 3-4% brown malt, around the same in chocolate malt plus 1.5% roasted barley. Also 5% crystal/caramalt to balance the sweetness.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 19:56
by HTH1975
jkp wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:As suggested above, defo kettle caramelisation for the flavour you want. I've done it once and imo it's not a flavour you can get with (speciality) malts alone.


So just boil to reduce the first runnings by half. Is that the idea?


I'd probably take about 5L from the boil kettle once you've done your sparge and reduce that by at least half - you'll see when the consistency changes and you will taste the caramel. Use your taste-buds, you won't go far wrong. Like chefs say - taste everything.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 09:48
by jkp
Thanks for all the advice.

One final thing just came to mind. If I'm going to add salt to the boil then it'll be adding sodium of course, but also Chloride too. Should I reduce my Calcium Chloride additions to adjust for this, or is the extra Chloride the whole point of adding the salt?

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 13:25
by HTH1975
For such a sweet beer you're gonna want your sulphate:chloride ratio right over towards the chloride end.

So with salt (sodium chloride) you will indeed be adding both sodium and chloride. Sodium is your 'salty' taste. Chloride gives an almost sweet note, to counterbalance your sulphate (perceived hop bitterness).

In this scenario of wanting a salty taste in the finished beer, I'd say just to use sodium chloride and leave out your calcium chloride. Your wort should provide adequate calcium levels.

Re: Salted Caramel Brown Porter - recipe Critique

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 15:26
by jkp
Thanks for the help everyone. This is in the fermentation fridge now. Check here for the brewday thread.