Nelson Sauvin IPA

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Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:19

Hi guys.
Been looking around for a beer to brew and one hop I've been wanting to use is NS.
I've never used it before and I've read that it's a bit of a "love it or hate it" kind as of hop and that over using it can result in garlic type flavours...
That said, I'd really like to give it a go. The majority have good things to say about it!


Heres the recipe I've been sent:

20L batch
7.1% ABV
OG 1.067
FG 1.013

Pale 5kg
Caramalt 0.63kg
Crystal 150 0.25kg

Mash @ 65C for 75mins


NS 12.5g 60mins
NS 25g 15mins
NS 50g 0mins


Yeast: Rehydrated us05


This is the first recipe I have been looking to do which doesn't have a dry hop schedule. I'm cool with that, but would you recommend I tinker with this a little or just brew as it suggests?
Would you consider mixing any other hops in the boil/dry hop?
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby HTH1975 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:43

I'd personally look at increasing your hop schedule - you're only getting 14 IBUs from your first addition and the same again from your 15 minute addition. 28 IBUs for a 7% IPA seems very low to me. I'd be looking at 60 IBUs for a beer like that, plus a big dry hop too.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby Rolfster » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:18

For my tastes you have got a lot of sweeter malts with your cara and crystal. I'd reduce them to about 5%.
And as HtH says more ibus and a big dry hop. I'd use a cheaper neutral bittering hop like magnum and save the NS for late in the boil/dry hop.
I just dry hopped 22 liters of pale with 74grams of NS so I will let you know in a week how it's doing!
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:52

Thanks guys. The recipe suggests 80ibu so is it the timing of the hop schedule that needs adjusting to suit? Should I drop them in earlier in the boil? I guess this is where I need to add them to the beersmith profile to check..?

If I dial back on the sweeter malts, do I need to compensate by upping the pale?
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby Mr Squiffy » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:34

Nelson is a good dual purpose hop so if you want a single hop beer then yes, up the first addition, you shouldn't need too much more as it's AA% is quite high. I always boil for 90 mins, the extra 30 mins will add a bit more bitterness if you did that, get it up to at least 60ibu. Personally I've not has much success using it as a dry hop, not sure why but whenever NS has been involved it smells nice but has had a bit of a sharp bitterness. Beersmith will calculate it all out for you if you put the recipe in.

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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby HTH1975 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 13:47

For comparison purposes, my IPA is as follows:

* 88% pale malt
* 7% caramalt
* 4% light crystal
* 1% torrified wheat

55 IBUs
1.060 OG

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby robwalker » Thu Sep 29, 2016 13:51

I hate to see NS wasted on bittering personally, you are going to need at least 60 ibus in that beer so get yourself a chunky bittering hop like Chinook, topaz, warrior, magnum and up your dry hop. I think NS can be a little one dimensional, so would combine it with something like centennial, Chinook, cascade for a bit of dank alongside the clean white wine aroma.
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Thu Sep 29, 2016 14:29

El Dorado is a hop I am also interested in, as well as Sorachi Ace...

I've read a couple of posts and the likes of Simcoe, Citra, Centennial, Cascade etc have all been thrown around as being great additions to the NS hop. I've used pretty much all of these in all 3 of my previous beers, hence why I'd like to try something new.

What would you say to putting these two together with the NS?
I'll aim for about 60-70 IBU and post up what I have put together...
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby HTH1975 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 18:25

Have a look at the DIYdog recipes - loads of recipes with NV hops.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Thu Sep 29, 2016 18:29

HTH1975 wrote:Have a look at the DIYdog recipes - loads of recipes with NV hops.



Tbh I have a feeling this is where it came from originally. Seems remarkably like the Chaos Theory brew...
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:10

Ok, so I don't know if I am doing this right but here goes. I have put together my very own first recipe, so please take a look and tell me if I am on the right track.

Also, up to now I have only really used pale malt and caramalt, but could I look at adding some pilsner or Munich in there? I don't know WHY I would add these malts, I'm just intrigued so hopefully you guys could give me some feedback to work with.
Up to now all my beers have been pretty hop heavy but I'd like a slight bit more to come through from the malts.

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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby Rolfster » Fri Sep 30, 2016 13:01

Looks great!
I would bring those 30 minute additions closer to the end of the boil (15 minutes or so to give more hop flavour), this will mean increasing your bittering hop addition.

Plisner malt will add fermentables with out too much flavour or colour (think lager), which some APA recipes do, this allows the hops to shine.
Munich will add biscuity/malty flavours. Can be used to give a good balance to a beer, but too much will detract from the hops.

Don't you think you should max out your 60L boiler and see how much you can get out of it? Split it between 2 fvs and try one with out dry hops, and one with? :whistle:
Or do a mini mash? and add the resultant wort (after boiling in a pan and cooling) to one of those 2 fvs and leave the other one as is?
Then you could do a compare and contrast!

Just some food for thought. :cheers1:
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Fri Sep 30, 2016 13:11

Thanks for the feedback, at least I didn't get laughed out of the group for posting something ridiculous!
I've 5 brews deep, never brewed the same thing twice up to now and forever looking to experiment. Whether that's deemed right or wrong, it's just me haha.

I figured I'd learned a little bit about what constitutes a basic recipe and these hops are ones I haven't used yet (aside from Centennial) and they have me mightily intrigued. I was torn between sorachi and el Dorado so that may change yet.

Ive altered the bill slightly below, reducing the pale malt and adding 290g of Munich.
I've also pushed the 30 min addition back to 15 mins, and upped the Magnum as a result. Think this looks better?Image

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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Fri Sep 30, 2016 13:14

Rolfster wrote:Looks great!
I would bring those 30 minute additions closer to the end of the boil (15 minutes or so to give more hop flavour), this will mean increasing your bittering hop addition.

Plisner malt will add fermentables with out too much flavour or colour (think lager), which some APA recipes do, this allows the hops to shine.
Munich will add biscuity/malty flavours. Can be used to give a good balance to a beer, but too much will detract from the hops.

Don't you think you should max out your 60L boiler and see how much you can get out of it? Split it between 2 fvs and try one with out dry hops, and one with? :whistle:
Or do a mini mash? and add the resultant wort (after boiling in a pan and cooling) to one of those 2 fvs and leave the other one as is?
Then you could do a compare and contrast!

Just some food for thought. :cheers1:

Thanks for that.
I would LOVE to max out this guy and go big but I wouldn't want to risk it at this early stage. If I nail this and it tastes great then certainly, I'll think about going big next time. I'll eventually get some recipes that I love and I'll make large batches of them.

Also, as I don't have a kegging system in place, I don't fancy bottling all that volume, as space is another thing to worry about! Looking to move in the new year though so that may just change!

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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby Rolfster » Fri Sep 30, 2016 15:37

I'm just getting some bottles ready to bottle my most recent brew....all 70 litres of it!
Similar to your planned brew! And with a mini-mash in one fv.

It's split into 3 fvs so I can bottle them on different days if I want.
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby Rolfster » Fri Sep 30, 2016 15:38

Here's the link if your interested viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10898
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby HTH1975 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 18:57

If you really want malt to come through, try melanoidin malt - it's supposed to mimic a decoction mash flavour, without having to do a decoction mash (afaik).

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby The Goatreich » Fri Sep 30, 2016 20:40

I thought Sorachi Ace was a lagery type hop?

Fermenting: AG#28 Things Can Only Get Bitter
Conditioning:
Drinking: AG#25 Williamsburg Wannabe, AG#26 #Tis the Saison, AG#27 Winter Equinox
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Fri Sep 30, 2016 20:49

Rolfster wrote:Here's the link if your interested http://www.forum.craftbrewing.org.uk/vi ... =5&t=10898

Thanks!
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Fri Sep 30, 2016 20:50

HTH1975 wrote:If you really want malt to come through, try melanoidin malt - it's supposed to mimic a decoction mash flavour, without having to do a decoction mash (afaik).


That couldn't have been any more foreign if you tried!
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Fri Sep 30, 2016 20:52

The Goatreich wrote:I thought Sorachi Ace was a lagery type hop?


I've seen it in all sorts, even stouts. Its not nailed on that I'll be using it yet, gonna a do a bit more research still.
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby robwalker » Fri Sep 30, 2016 23:53

The Goatreich wrote:I thought Sorachi Ace was a lagery type hop?


Not at all, unique intense lemon sherbert flavour.
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby The Goatreich » Sat Oct 01, 2016 07:47

Wow! Sounds amazing. I think I had a Sorachi Ace saison in Brroklyn Brewery a few years ago that was very plain tasting which probably clouded my judgement. Must give that a go.

Fermenting: AG#28 Things Can Only Get Bitter
Conditioning:
Drinking: AG#25 Williamsburg Wannabe, AG#26 #Tis the Saison, AG#27 Winter Equinox
----------------------------------------------
Twitter: @andimorris616
Instagram: @andimorris616
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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:08

A slight tinker to the original plan.
Any thoughts on this?
Should I adjust hop quantities?
Am setting up the flame out/steep hops correctly with a 10 min steep?

Hopefully I'll get some feedback in the next half hour so I can get my order in to MM ready to brew on Sat!!

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Re: Nelson Sauvin IPA

Postby robwalker » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:09

Looks good to me. I don't personally feel the crystal is necessary at that OG, but horses for courses.
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