Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

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Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby HTH1975 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 18:24

Hi all,

The missus is out all day tomorrow, so I'm planning another brew.

I'd like to make a straight up Yorkshire bitter, something like Timothy Taylor landlord, or Theakstons bitter.

Could I do this with lager malt with a reasonable degree of success, or should I just buy some Maris Otter?

Alternatively, would an IPA/Pale Ale be better with the lager malts?

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed
Drinking: store-bought beer as my bar is dry
Conditioning: choc-coffee oatmeal wheat stout, various ciders, cherry 'brett' brown ale, imperial Pilsner.
Fermenting: Bock (6.5%), IPA (5.5%), Pale Ale (4.5)
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby LeithR » Fri Feb 05, 2016 19:51

If you look at the vast majority of British beers they are made with MO. It wouldn't be Yorkshire bitter if made with Lager malt, so my advice is go buy some MO. At least that way you know what you are aiming at. British and continental beers have a number of similarities and many differences. They ferment at different temperatures British higher than lagers. The yeast they use are different in that British beers are top fermenting while lagers are bottom fermenting. There are many differences, can I suggest you get yourself some beer making books and also some recipe books, maybe Graham Wheelers "Brew your own British Real Ale" and maybe John Palmers "How to Brew" you can read it online at http://www.howtobrew.com/. Its maybe not the best book on the shelf but it goes through all the steps and probably qualifies as a "good place to start".

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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby 5hats » Fri Feb 05, 2016 20:01

LeithR wrote:If you look at the vast majority of British beers they are made with MO.


"The vast majority" is probably an overstatement, given that, according to this, it "represents 15% of all the winter malting barley purchases in the UK by members of the Maltsters Association of Great Britain."

http://www.barleyhub.org/barley/maris-otter/

But I wouldn't make a Yorkshire bitter out of all lager malt either.

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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby PeeBee » Fri Feb 05, 2016 21:10

"Yorkshire bitter" out of lager malt?

He, he ,he. Well I've got to admire your guts grabbing a laugh like that. Of course, you can say what you like living in... "Thirsk, North Yorkshire"? Err, start spinning the story about getting your account hacked... err, bye then.
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby GrahamT » Fri Feb 05, 2016 21:28

HTH1975 wrote:Alternatively, would an IPA/Pale Ale be better with the lager malts?


Yes, definitely - better than a 'Yorkshire' ale, and lager malt is used quite a lot in APAs.

By the way, if you're doing a Yorkshire ale, I'd get an appropriate yeast like WY1469 or WLP037

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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby PhatFil » Fri Feb 05, 2016 21:37

it would lack body imho so would probably make a good tetleys clone,thats like dishwater, the colour would come from the crystal and black adjuncts.

imho the base malt provides the flavour base of a beer, as you have the lager malt i asume you have already brewed with it? if so how would you rate the malty quality of the beer and do you think it would work well with the bittering hops for your bitter,

Might be worth a small batch to try out, it could be a winner? but could aslo be a fail?

Personally for a pale ale i use MO with no colouring adjuncts which produces a nice malty just amber ale..
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby Springer » Fri Feb 05, 2016 22:01

At your stage of the game H I would stay with tried and tested recipes. You have a better chance there of knowing what you might end up with. ;) Dabbling with lager is fine, if you really want to, but its brewing presents another set of challenges :D
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby HTH1975 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 22:25

Just asking as I got gifted a load of grains last week and there is a good 10kg of pale lager malt - just wondering about how best to use it up without just making a straight up lager (which I'm not a fan of). Was wondering if I could have used the lager base malt, then added other grains to fill out the flavour and mouth feel. Got plenty of wheat Malts here.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed
Drinking: store-bought beer as my bar is dry
Conditioning: choc-coffee oatmeal wheat stout, various ciders, cherry 'brett' brown ale, imperial Pilsner.
Fermenting: Bock (6.5%), IPA (5.5%), Pale Ale (4.5)
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby Goulders » Fri Feb 05, 2016 22:31

Lager malt is like US2 row for pale ales. Try Mysterious SNPA at some point. That uses lager malt
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby Good Ed » Fri Feb 05, 2016 22:42

There's nothing wrong with using lager malt in combination with some pale malt for pale ales, however you can then also use some Munich or pale crystal to give a bit of body. Not really for a Yorkshire bitter though.

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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby HTH1975 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 01:22

Ok, so I'm getting the idea that doing a Yorkshire bitter with a lager malt is not gonna fly.

So, I've got a lot of lager malt and have some pale and dark crystal, caramalt, munich, amber, roasted barley, chocolate malt and carafa special 1. Then there is all kinds of wheat malts too, oh, and some rauch.

Using the lager base malt, I've got some decent options there to knock together an IPA or APA judging from what has already been suggested, so I'll go in that direction I reckon.

If anyone has recipe suggests, they're very welcome.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed
Drinking: store-bought beer as my bar is dry
Conditioning: choc-coffee oatmeal wheat stout, various ciders, cherry 'brett' brown ale, imperial Pilsner.
Fermenting: Bock (6.5%), IPA (5.5%), Pale Ale (4.5)
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby jaroporter » Sat Feb 06, 2016 08:28

really suprised at some of the negativity here, are people being blinded by the name? the malt is nothing to do with the yeast used and fermenting temperature?! sure if you do a 100% lager malt bitter you're unlikely to come out with something resembling TTL (yeast aside, obviously), but stick a wedge of crystal in, and maybe a bit of chocolate and you wont be a million miles off many other darker bitters. add a little of that munich (or even amber) and there's some of that malty sweetness you're missing from MO. that's actually why so many american IPAs have munich in their recipes - as said above, their base malt is more like lager malt and they want something more like MO!

but then this brewing as all very simple to me. if a dude in thirsk brews a bitter, then it's a yorkshire bitter.. :cheers:
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby Springer » Sat Feb 06, 2016 09:07

jaroporter wrote:if a dude in thirsk brews a bitter, then it's a yorkshire bitter.. :cheers:

Can't fault that :D
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby Kyle_T » Sat Feb 06, 2016 09:25

HTH1975 wrote:Hi all,

The missus is out all day tomorrow, so I'm planning another brew.

I'd like to make a straight up Yorkshire bitter, something like Timothy Taylor landlord, or Theakstons bitter.

Could I do this with lager malt with a reasonable degree of success, or should I just buy some Maris Otter?

Alternatively, would an IPA/Pale Ale be better with the lager malts?


In short, yes you can, it's your beer, Lager malt will give it a nice crispness as most Yorkshire bitters are on the pale side.

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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby HTH1975 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:46

I like that train of thought - it's a Yorkshire bitter if it's brewed in Yorkshire :0) I'm a Geordie anyway, so it will never be a 'true' Yorkshire bitter, ha ha.

I'm gonna give this a bash - screw it. It certainly is unlikely to be as good as the beers I want to copy, but it should hopefully be drinkable and broadly tasting like a bitter. Wish me luck - everything crossed :D

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed
Drinking: store-bought beer as my bar is dry
Conditioning: choc-coffee oatmeal wheat stout, various ciders, cherry 'brett' brown ale, imperial Pilsner.
Fermenting: Bock (6.5%), IPA (5.5%), Pale Ale (4.5)
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby HTH1975 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:50

btw, how would one harvest yeast from a beer keg in a pub? - I may have access to TT Landlord at a pub to grow their yeast.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed
Drinking: store-bought beer as my bar is dry
Conditioning: choc-coffee oatmeal wheat stout, various ciders, cherry 'brett' brown ale, imperial Pilsner.
Fermenting: Bock (6.5%), IPA (5.5%), Pale Ale (4.5)
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby Kyle_T » Sat Feb 06, 2016 13:12

Get them to slosh it around into a slurry, drain into a container, add some to a starter.

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby Rolfster » Sat Feb 06, 2016 14:31

HTH1975 wrote:I like that train of thought - it's a Yorkshire bitter if it's brewed in Yorkshire :0) I'm a Geordie anyway, so it will never be a 'true' Yorkshire bitter, ha ha.

I'm gonna give this a bash - screw it. It certainly is unlikely to be as good as the beers I want to copy, but it should hopefully be drinkable and broadly tasting like a bitter. Wish me luck - everything crossed :D


Good luck! I'm sure it will fine. It may not be what you set out take make! I've done this type of thing a few times and ended up with nice beer!
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby john luc » Sat Feb 06, 2016 17:01

The issue is the naming of pale malts that sometimes cause brewers to doubt using them. Lager malt,Ale malt,Stout malt,they are base malts and are used to make beer,all beer. They have slight differences in flavor but just because it says Lager does not mean it is only for Lager. Heineken buy "Lager Malt" from MCI malsters in Cork and brew Heineken Lager :ill: and Murphy's Stout with it :o . Go for it :party:
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby robwalker » Sat Feb 06, 2016 17:06

I reckon with some crystal and a biscuity malt like Amber you'd get away with it fine.
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby HTH1975 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 18:22

Kyle_T wrote:Get them to slosh it around into a slurry, drain into a container, add some to a starter.


Cheers - will report back if I'm successful :cheers:

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed
Drinking: store-bought beer as my bar is dry
Conditioning: choc-coffee oatmeal wheat stout, various ciders, cherry 'brett' brown ale, imperial Pilsner.
Fermenting: Bock (6.5%), IPA (5.5%), Pale Ale (4.5)
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby HTH1975 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 18:32

robwalker wrote:I reckon with some crystal and a biscuity malt like Amber you'd get away with it fine.


With my chef's hat on, that was my way of thinking - to make up the lack of malt-character in the lager malt by upping the malt flavour from the other malts.

I've done a bit reading today and by combining recipes for ESB and Yorkshire bitter (both have varying amounts of the same grains), I've come up with a plan as follows:

* pale malt, 4kg (maybe cut this as 3kg of lager malt and 1kg of munich?)
* crystal malt, 225g (have pale or dark)
* unmalted/torrified wheat, 300g (also got various types of wheat malt... light, dark, rauch)
* chocolate malt, 20g (or maybe carafa special 1, or roasted barley - both of which are supposed to be similar to choc malt, but with less 'burnt' flavours).

For hops, I'm thinking:

* Challenger, 38g at start
* East Kent Goldings, 20g with 10 mins left
* Williamette, 12g at end of boil

I've also got some of the following hops that could be swapped/added to the mix... Summit, Target, Northdown, Glacier, Saaz, Magnum.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed
Drinking: store-bought beer as my bar is dry
Conditioning: choc-coffee oatmeal wheat stout, various ciders, cherry 'brett' brown ale, imperial Pilsner.
Fermenting: Bock (6.5%), IPA (5.5%), Pale Ale (4.5)
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby robwalker » Sat Feb 06, 2016 18:43

Looks great. I'd combine the two crystals for more character personally.
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby HTH1975 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 18:51

robwalker wrote:Looks great. I'd combine the two crystals for more character personally.


Spot on - I think that more of the pale crystal will be best, maybe 75g dark and 150g light.

Also, what about using wheat malt or unmalted? - I have both.

Finally, I'm erring towards roasted barley for the 'depth' rather than chocolate malt. Opinions?

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed
Drinking: store-bought beer as my bar is dry
Conditioning: choc-coffee oatmeal wheat stout, various ciders, cherry 'brett' brown ale, imperial Pilsner.
Fermenting: Bock (6.5%), IPA (5.5%), Pale Ale (4.5)
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Re: Can I use lager malt for yorkshire bitter?

Postby robwalker » Sat Feb 06, 2016 19:46

I'd say just go with what feels right.
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