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Brown Milds

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 14:04
by rodwha
Is it common to mash at a higher temp, maybe around 70-71* C?

Here I can get Maris Otter, Halcyon, Pearl, Golden Promise, or Optic. Which would be more traditional?

How would Fermentis S-04 work in this?

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 14:22
by rodwha
Looking through the available hops (excluding German ones, though I'm open to them if it's fitting) I see:

Delta (seems American with cross between Fuggles and Cascade)
Styrian Goldings (Celeia)
Styrian Bobek

Which ones would you consider?

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 14:26
by robwalker
Milds can span the whole brewer's window in terms of temp range imo. If you like thin and dry go for low, for bigger bodied go for high. The choice is yours on that one, it's more about leaning towards low ibus and a subtle complexity with the bread/roast/fruit/spice etc all in light harmony.

An estery fruity yeast is also important, s-04 would be okay. For dry I would recommend M03 as it's packed with the right flavours.

No idea on the base malt but I just this minute brewed with pearl and it smells a bit like wee and honey. lol.

Hops - EKG, Fuggles, Bobek and Challenger would all be good.

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 02:38
by rodwha
I worked up a quick 4.5 gal (17 L) recipe. This is what it looks like so far, though I'm not sure exactly how the higher mash will alter my numbers as Brewtoad doesn't take into account the mash temp/fermentability. Here it is:

7 lbs Halcyon (3.2 kg)
1/2 lb carafoam (227 g)
.375 lb pale chocolate (170 g)
.375 lb British crystal 70/80 (170 g)
1/2 oz Fuggles @ 70/21 mins each (14 g)

4.8% ABV
16 IBUs
14 SRM

This doesn't take into account the corn sugar for carbonation (~2 vols), and I'm not sure how 70-71* C will effect the ABV, which is why I have the OG a little high.

Would I want anything in particular as far as the water profile?

I'm not sure if I'll order more brewing supplies (mid month) as I recently received 4 batches worth, and my cigar stash is getting a little low, but I like to have things worked out in advance. I generally get to work on my next 3-4 batches after ordering. I greatly enjoy working on recipes!!!

Any help or critique is well received and sought after.

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 03:29
by rodwha
Poking around a bit more I saw Crisp English brown malt, Baird's chocolate, Baird's black roasted barley, and Simpson's coffee malt. Would you swap out the Crisp pale chocolate for any of these instead?

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 07:32
by pittsy
Your recipe looks ok , I used mild ale malt in my last version , with half your chocolate and with some black malt too ( only 50g ) and around 300g of crystal . Yes mashing high works fine but I'd do it at 68/69c and expect it to finish around 1012/14 depending on your yeast , wlp 002 is a good yeast what you using :thumb:

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 09:15
by Kyle_T
To me it seems like your over complicating it a little and at 71° you will end up with a high FG and a high level of residual sweetness, more akin to a London brown ale instead of a mild.

Depending on which period of time you want to take an example from can significantly chance the basics of the mild.

For something in the 4.5% - 5% I would pick somewhere around 67/68°, for a running beer style I would choose somewhere between 63° - 65° as they were brewed to have a high level of fermentability, low FG's and a good element of dryness.

The majority of them would have included some amount of sugar in the recipe to reduce the cost and tax of malt and gravity. It may be worth including some of this in yours.

Unless you regularly brew it, keep it simple. A healthy amount of base malt, either MO or Pearl are good choices, reduce the crystal a bit for the higher gravity, get rid of the carafoam and adjust the chocolate to around 3% for colour and you will have a good strength mild.

I would use Challenger to reduce the amount of hops needed and give a gentle dusting of both Styrian Goldings in the last 15 minutes just for a slight aroma on the nose.

I'm sure someone will come along and disagree but there you go, hope it's of some help.

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 13:43
by rodwha
Thanks for the input!

I'll swap out the base grains as you suggested. A part of me wants to use something other than MO, especially as I keep seeing "mild malts" listed as typical, but then I can buy MO in a bit of a bulk deal as I know I'll use it.

I seem to often suffer from head retention problems. I will typically add carafoam, carapils, flaked barley, or wheat to help, though even that doesn't always fix it. Is it a big enough issue that it would be better to try it without it? I don't get too worked up about being proper or beautiful, but do like to hand a good beer out to others.

I'm thinking I will swap out the pale chocolate for the darker Baird's chocolate too. I was wanting the color to be a bit darker, and at 14 SRM it's probable it'll be more of an amber. I'll also reduce the crystal too, though I may swap it out for a darker crystal. I only went with 70/80 because I use it in my ESB and was looking to buy bulk.

I'm not fond of opening hops and storing them in the freezer for long (no more than a month). The hops come in an ounce package (454 g), and so I try to work it that way.

I wondered about a bit thicker beer much like a stout, but you are likely right in that it could be too sweet without much bitterness to counter it. I'll drop my mash temp to about 68* C (155*).

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 13:57
by robwalker
dark crystal is great in a dark mild.

head retention, are you washing all chemicals away from your fermenters etc and using clean, rinsed glassware (5+ times?) makes a huge difference.

the beers I have stored for a few months have fantastic heads whereas the short life stuff suffers. without turbo conditioning stuff like the big boys, it's partially a matter of patience.

Kyle is the man for milds! heed his advice well. :) like pittsy with wheat beers, and like me with...well, nothing.

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 14:10
by rodwha
It would seem as though the most likely possibility would be my equipment. I recently quit washing them with dish soap and began using PBW instead.

I soak my glasses in Star San sanitizer and use a sponge. Then I place them in the dishwasher on the dry cycle. No soaps.

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 14:20
by rodwha
I've also swapped the Fuggles for EKG. I bought an extra ounce in case the AAs are low, and it's what I use in my ESBs so it won't sit too long.

Speaking of sitting too long does it keep well?

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 14:49
by rodwha
Revised my recipe now looks like this:

7.25 lbs Crisp MO
.375 lb crystal 135/165
.19 lb (3 oz) Baird's chocolate (84 g)
0.5 oz EKG @ 70/21 mins

This gives me 17 IBUs and 17 SRM, though I'm wantin to add the full 4 oz of chocolate as the only way I can get it is milled, and I don't like saving that more than a month either. Would that be a bit too much, especially for a lower gravity beer?

Would anyone pull some of the EKG from the flavoring addition and add it to the bittering instead?

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 15:08
by rodwha
I've not used that dark chocolate before and want to avoid an overly roasty beer. I can see enjoying a mild roasty flavor though. I certainly loves stouts!

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 15:14
by Kyle_T
You can easily add the full 4oz of chocolate, I don't quite understand why you have hops at 70 and 21 minutes?

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 15:45
by rodwha
There's a hop utilization chart I was shown which I just found a way to post in the hops section on this forum. It shows that the peak aroma time is around 7 mins, the peak flavor time is around 21 mins, and I just ran with the series of 7's and made my bittering addition 70 mins. If nothing else it adds just a touch more, but I've also read that a longer bittering boil with smooth out the bitterness, which is why some breweries will do 90-120 min boils.

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 18:13
by pittsy
If you have head retention problems try a 15 min rest at 71c when mashing , this will greatly improve it .

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 18:28
by Kyle_T
I would assume you are then after a Nothern Mild, us down South don't worry too much about that kind of thing as they were in the later stages used as running beers for breweries. A small addition of wheat malt will improve it but for me it is entirely unnecessary, the low level of condition would largely negate it, it is only more modern examples that feel the need to have a thick head.

If you want to follow a chart then all is well but the majority of brewers, even commercial will use a standard 90 minute boil with additions of aroma hops in the last 10 minutes, but the choice is yours. As for the IBU level I would aim for somewhere between 22 - 22 at 4.8%, this will give you a better balance between the malt and bitterness. The aroma addition only needs to be a small addition of between 20 - 30g or 1oz?

Fuggles is better suited in a mild for its earth quality, it can also be used well in an equal dual addition for bittering with the aroma or dry hop of EKG.

As for the chocolate malt I would use up to a maximum of 5% to avoid any big or harsh roast notes at lower abv and 3% at high abv.

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 21:46
by rodwha
I don't necessarily care about a thick head, but one that leaves a remnant. I don't care much for higher carbonation levels. 2.6 vols is about as much as I prefer. Our crappy American lagers are way too carbonated to me. Those are over 3.0 vols.

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 06:32
by Kyle_T
2.6? Ours is more like 1.06 :lol:

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 16:43
by rodwha
1.6 vols is about as low as I like, though I can't say I've tried any that were lower. But then I've not had any of your cask ale.

Long ago, what I thought I knew of "room temperature" beer, sounded horrible as our room temp is in the low to mid 70's (22-24* C). I've found that a quality ale is still good at these temps though (I'm a slow drinker). But back then I drank that nasty swill known as American lagers with crappy adjuncts and low hop rates. The commercials always show them ice cold (literally in an ice chest on ice), and they do need to be served very cold as it becomes quite nasty if it warms up.

When I bought that beer it was barely cold (a fridge is colder), and so I had a timer set for 20 mins so that I could chill them enough in the freezer.

Our beer glasses are often chilled too. When given one in that state I'll hold it to warm it back up, and tell the waiter why it's bad for quality beers.

Re: Brown Milds

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 17:02
by rpt
British beers are not served at room temperature but at cellar temperature (12°C). Fortunately we still have plenty of cask conditioned ales here, but the best selling beers are over cold lagers and nitro ales. Some of our flavourless beers come with the option of an extra cold version just in case there is too much flavour.