Pale Stout

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Pale Stout

Postby b2b » Mon Jan 12, 2015 22:52

Thinking of doing a Pale Stout this weekend - did one at ABC Brewery last November as part of their "assistant brewer for a day", it was lovely . Which makes me think, what's a Stout? Particularly, how does that translate to a Pale Stout recipe / process.
My "definition" (open to correction) is a full bodied stronger beer with more emphasis on the malt than the hops.

What we did at ABC was a Pale Ale recipe, but the outcome was as per my definition. So what made it so much more malty? I didn't pay attention to the mash temps, but I do know fermentation was "stopped" early.

So, back in my laboratory (garage), I'm tempted to try a 1050ish target 5.5% Pale Ale style, but upping the mash temp to 70ish to get those longer chain sugars, and using a lower attenuation yeast (eg the one ABC used) and stopping it at about 70% to keep the sugars / body.

Any thoughts? Sound like a sensible plan?
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby supersteve » Mon Jan 12, 2015 22:56

Don't they stop the fermentation to carry on in barrel, creating the carbonation and real ale taste?
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby b2b » Mon Jan 12, 2015 22:58

Hm, Supersteve, that's a point I was worried about - main purpose of this is a 55th birthday present (hence 5.5%). it's going into Polypins, will they explode if I leave a few points of sugar in there to ferment after leaving the "gift bomb" with the birthday boy?
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby supersteve » Mon Jan 12, 2015 23:03

It will carry on fermenting unless you pasteurise it.. so unless you can calculate the exact moment you need to stop fermentation in order to transfer to polypins to create desired carbonation without explosion I'd not risk it. Though.. it might be easier than I'm making out.
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby robwalker » Mon Jan 12, 2015 23:06

I'd probably head for a pale barley wine. Not sure about Durham's effort with lots of columbus, but it would be good to age it, maybe a little oak for earthy character?
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby Bad 'Ed » Mon Jan 12, 2015 23:25

If you mash at 70 and use something like Windsor, you'll get a high FG without having to worry about fermentation carrying on. You could finish 1.020 or something without there being anything left to ferment.

I wouldn't try to artificially stop fermentation unless you have a filter or something similar.

Never enough time....
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby CraftyTim » Tue Jan 13, 2015 01:07

You can find the limit of attenuation by performing the fast ferment test, this will provide you with the limit that the yeast will go to so that you can stop the fermentation a couple of points above this for cask/polypin fermentation. IME my main fermentation usually naturally stops a couple of points above the fast ferment test anyway so if you are looking to force stop then maybe 4 points above the fast ferment test will do it.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy :D
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Jan 13, 2015 09:30

OFFS HOW CAN A STOUT BE PALE .

Why not put Imperial in front of the name as well and be done with it


Its Just a malty pale ale nothing new in that. :evil: :evil:

A stout by definition has dark grains in it and the bitterness from the grains is alowed to come through that is what makes a stout a stout. (of course if you only steep the grains in cold water or use them new fangled foireign cara grains that don't impart any flavour then you have a American Black Indian Pale Cascadeian Dark Ale Abomination.)

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Re: Pale Stout

Postby supersteve » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:28

I was thinking of making an Imperial pale black indian pale ale. It's like an Imperial stout mixed with a black IPA but I'm gonna make it pale.
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby CraftyTim » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:39

Is a Belgian Stout OK, I was about to post my latest proposed AG which I am basing on Stout that I have drunk on the continent that was made with Belgian yeast and some continental grains it was very tasty, but I don't want to upset the traditional apple cart by inventing a new category that no-one will agreee with :D

I'm sure it's as old as the hills and it was just called Stout, no fancy cascadian, dark IPA, made with centennial IBU of 120 or such like, although I do have some de-husked roasted barley (from Weyermann I think).

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy :D
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:36

CraftyTim wrote:I'm sure it's as old as the hills and it was just called Stout, no fancy cascadian, dark IPA, made with centennial IBU of 120 or such like, although I do have some de-husked roasted barley (from Weyermann I think).


The whole point of a stout is that it gets some of its bitterness/flavour from the dark malts ie the husks

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Re: Pale Stout

Postby robwalker » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:58

graysalchemy wrote:
CraftyTim wrote:I'm sure it's as old as the hills and it was just called Stout, no fancy cascadian, dark IPA, made with centennial IBU of 120 or such like, although I do have some de-husked roasted barley (from Weyermann I think).


The whole point of a stout is that it gets some of its bitterness/flavour from the dark malts ie the husks


A Modern stout yes, but there's historic evidence to suggest that stout used to just mean strong and full, hence why people are dabbling with it. Imperial is also a bastardization, it doesn't mean strong, it means brewed for royalty.
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby supersteve » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:02

Wiki for Porter
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4] The name "stout" as used for a dark beer is believed to have come about because strong porters were marketed under such names as "Extra Porter", "Double Porter", and "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was originally called Extra Superior Porter and was only given the name Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Jan 13, 2015 13:09

I don't think anyone is disputing what the conection between a stout and a porter is Steve they are so intrinsically linked, and some modern examples you wouldn't really distinquish between them.

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Re: Pale Stout

Postby supersteve » Tue Jan 13, 2015 13:24

Just saying.. It seems the origin of the name stout just relates to a Strong Dark beer. No other characteristics.
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby robwalker » Tue Jan 13, 2015 13:36

The expression stout porter was applied during the 18th century to strong versions of porter, and was used by Guinness of Ireland in 1820 – although Guinness had been brewing porters since about 1780, having originally been an ale brewer from its foundation in 1759. Stout still meant only "strong" and it could be related to any kind of beer, as long as it was strong: in the UK it was possible to find "stout pale ale", for example. Later, stout was eventually to be associated only with porter, becoming a synonym of dark beer.


http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... stout.html

Again, stout is a modern term for dark beer. b2b is brewing a historical style in brewing a pale stout (or Stout Pale Ale.) The origin of the word stout means "strong" not "dark!"
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Jan 13, 2015 13:41

Point Taken

Hangs head in shame

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Re: Pale Stout

Postby b2b » Tue Jan 13, 2015 21:12

Yup. can't argue, it's a malty pale ale I'm after. And one that's a bit stronger than I usually brew, so looks like that qualifies for the stout title (using a historical licence).

And can't be doing with filtering and pasteurising, so will probably just ferment it out with the same yeast we used at ABC (which came with the beer I bought 10 days later - the one we brewed and in which I pitched the previous generation). With a 70C mash, hope to get a FG of 1020 as per Bad Ed's suggestion (thx) - I reckon the yeast is WLP002, Thames Valley, Fullers whatever - seem to recall these are same/similar, 65/70% attenuation.

Oak sounds an interesting addition Rob - I wonder if something Oaky from the log shed, take some shavings off with a plane, boil cool and add mid fermentation might create some interest? Anyone tried that? What quantities?

The ABC experience was cracking. (7am start though). The head brewer there does one brew a week, every brew is a one-off apart from the occasional house golden ale. We brewed White Leviathan - http://www.aylesburybrewhouse.co.uk/brewery
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby robwalker » Tue Jan 13, 2015 21:42

You need French or American oak for it to taste good. You've wet my appetite for this, reckon I might brew one soon!
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby Bad 'Ed » Tue Jan 13, 2015 22:27

supersteve wrote:I was thinking of making an Imperial pale black indian pale ale.

If you used American hops it could be an Imperial Pale Black American Indian pale ale.

Never enough time....
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Jan 13, 2015 22:37

And use a larger yeast you couls also call it an mperial Pale Black American Indian pale lager........

The possabilites for reinventing the wheel ar endless no doubt.

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Re: Pale Stout

Postby supersteve » Tue Jan 13, 2015 22:45

Bad 'Ed wrote:
supersteve wrote:I was thinking of making an Imperial pale black indian pale ale.

If you used American hops it could be an Imperial Pale Black American Indian pale ale.


Decided on an Imperial Pale Stout Black American Indian Pale Ale. Leave it up to my guests to decide what colour it will actually be out the tap.
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby Bad 'Ed » Wed Jan 14, 2015 00:01

Surely as an American Indian beer it will be red...

Never enough time....
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby Rolfster » Wed Jan 14, 2015 00:21

Have you seen this for oak?
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5774
There must be somewhere to buy some tasty oak....
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Re: Pale Stout

Postby supersteve » Wed Jan 14, 2015 09:55

Bad 'Ed wrote:Surely as an American Indian beer it will be red...


It's a Black American Indian
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