Fuller's Imperial Stout

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Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby Bad 'Ed » Thu Dec 14, 2017 19:48

Just in case someone wants to recreate the beer. Image

Never enough time....
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby CraftyTim » Thu Dec 14, 2017 21:42

Wow - good find

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy :D
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby jaroporter » Fri Dec 15, 2017 00:51

say whhhaaaaa.. the black book!

that is pretty exciting.

cheers for posting
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby LeeH » Sat Dec 16, 2017 18:54

What book is that?


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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby john luc » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:00

Is this from a Fullers source :hat:
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby BarnsleyBrewer » Wed Dec 27, 2017 13:36

Nice one.....

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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby HTH1975 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 14:17

Nice use of sugars

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby Lanky94 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 22:49

I like this find........well done!
To create it, I guess use a London water profile with the extra addition of potassium chloride?
What does this substance do for the Beer? Control PH?

Also, in the grain Bill. What would the imperial be? Roast barley?
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby HTH1975 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 01:33

Imperial malt, afaik, is made by Simpsons and described as ‘super Munich’ - intense malt and dry biscuity flavour. Sounds like Biscuit malt or CaraMunich type malts.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby HTH1975 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 01:35

Potassium chloride - this adjusts the sulphate-to-chloride mix, softening the perceived bitterness.

The darker malts will drive down the mash pH.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby Lanky94 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 01:38

HTH1975 wrote:Potassium chloride - this adjusts the sulphate-to-chloride mix, softening the perceived bitterness.

The darker malts will drive down the mash pH.


I am new to the whole water chemistry and PH thing. I see no mention of anything added to balance the ph?
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby Lanky94 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 01:42

HTH1975 wrote:Imperial malt, afaik, is made by Simpsons and described as ‘super Munich’ - intense malt and dry biscuity flavour. Sounds like Biscuit malt or CaraMunich type malts.


Thanks
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby HTH1975 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 09:21

Lanky94 wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:Potassium chloride - this adjusts the sulphate-to-chloride mix, softening the perceived bitterness.

The darker malts will drive down the mash pH.


I am new to the whole water chemistry and PH thing. I see no mention of anything added to balance the ph?


This is a contentious issue, but Murphy told me that using an acid to adjust a water’s pH will not affect the brewing process pH, its calcium that does all the hard work along with the phosphates in the malt.

To adjust the mash pH and ultimately the entire process pH, you need to look at calcium additions.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby HTH1975 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 09:27

Conventional wisdom states that dark malts will help drive down mash pH too, so consider that you have brown and chocolate malts in that grainbill.

Do you know anything about the water you’re brewing with? I’d recommend a (Murphy) water report to get an idea of what your water is like. I’d also ask your water supplier for a report to give you a broad idea of your water, also ask if you’re supplied from more than one source as that can change the water you get at the tap.

Easy way if you prefer not to do all that is bottled water. Tesco Ashbeck works great, but they now have a value range where the water is very similar (just a bit more calcium from what I recall). I’ve brewed with both to good results. At 13p/2L, the value stuff worked for me. I just used it in the mash and started with treated tap water.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby Bad 'Ed » Sun Dec 31, 2017 14:26

john luc wrote:Is this from a Fullers source :hat:


Yeah, one of the brewers is posting them on twitter.

Never enough time....
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby CraftyTim » Sun Dec 31, 2017 20:27

HTH1975 wrote:
Lanky94 wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:Potassium chloride - this adjusts the sulphate-to-chloride mix, softening the perceived bitterness.

The darker malts will drive down the mash pH.


I am new to the whole water chemistry and PH thing. I see no mention of anything added to balance the ph?


This is a contentious issue, but Murphy told me that using an acid to adjust a water’s pH will not affect the brewing process pH, its calcium that does all the hard work along with the phosphates in the malt.

To adjust the mash pH and ultimately the entire process pH, you need to look at calcium additions.


Some would take issue with Murphy's advice! Question I would ask is what is the definition of the term 'brewing process pH', it sounds ambiguous, additions of acids to my brewing water certainly lowers my mash pH. Calcium is important, but I'm not sure that Murphy's has got it spot on with that advice. I think the water threads probably contain the relevant info though viewforum.php?f=44

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy :D
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby Lanky94 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 23:53

HTH1975 wrote:Conventional wisdom states that dark malts will help drive down mash pH too, so consider that you have brown and chocolate malts in that grainbill.

Do you know anything about the water you’re brewing with? I’d recommend a (Murphy) water report to get an idea of what your water is like. I’d also ask your water supplier for a report to give you a broad idea of your water, also ask if you’re supplied from more than one source as that can change the water you get at the tap.

Easy way if you prefer not to do all that is bottled water. Tesco Ashbeck works great, but they now have a value range where the water is very similar (just a bit more calcium from what I recall). I’ve brewed with both to good results. At 13p/2L, the value stuff worked for me. I just used it in the mash and started with treated tap water.


My water profile is:

CA 14
MG 1.9
NA 23
S04 36
CL 20
HC03 33
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby INDIAPALEALE » Tue Jan 02, 2018 08:59

Bad 'Ed wrote:
john luc wrote:Is this from a Fullers source :hat:


Yeah, one of the brewers is posting them on twitter.


I don't believe in Father Christmas and I don't believe that in the twenty first century Fuller use hand written ledgers using different pens. I even saw one of these in December 2017 with a January 2018 date :nono:
JUST BECAUSE IT IS ON THE INTERNET DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IT

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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby rlemkin » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:14

It's almost like... they plan their recipes in advance :P
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby HTH1975 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 13:26

We still use hand-written brew-sheets at work. If it’s not broke, why fix it?

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Fuller's Imperial Stout

Postby CraftyTim » Tue Jan 02, 2018 14:47

Lanky94 wrote:
My water profile is:

CA 14
MG 1.9
NA 23
S04 36
CL 20
HC03 33


This probably needs to go into the water section as it could spark a lifelong thread :D - however.....I like to use brewers friend water chemistry calculator as it has many variables to play with and provides me with a starting point when using the balanced profile, there are loads of other water calculators to try. I've punched your numbers in, you can find the results here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=9X37LY4

I've used the balanced profile and changed the Ca to 125, I've not changed any other numbers in the profile, I also set the HCO to 100. Then I had a play with the salt additions to try and achieve a Ca of 125 and HCO of 100. You can see a requirement for 4g Gypsum, 5g CaCl and 3g of Chalk. If I was starting with your water then this would be my starting point, I don't worry about Mg or Na. I attempt to get a balance between Chloride and Sulphate and then I may play with the recipe, hops and malts depending on how each brew turns out. Note that I have treated the whole brew length and not separated any sparge additions.

It can take a lot of brews to work out what is needed for your own taste and beer style and each brew will be different and everyones opinion will be different, this is just my basic starting process for any brew. Personally I have not yet played with the Cl and SO balance as I am still working out (after nearly 30 brews) the optimum acid additions for my brew water (my water has very high HCO that can change each brewday, but there is no acid required for your water). I also brew with a Braumeister and treat all my water (I only rinse with around 10% of my water). I also check the water Alk (HCO converted to ppm CaCO3 in my case) following my own acid additions before I begin the mash.

You need to understand when and how to add the salts as there are differences between how they dissolve and whereabouts in the brew process they should be used. As already stated by a previous poster there are other options such as using Tesco Ashbeck, RO, distilled and/or combination of waters.

The two Salifert kits for measuring Alkilinity and Calcium are needed if you want to keep and eye on the levels as Alkilinity especially can change each brew day. I also check levels after I have treated the water with Campden (Campden treatment is the most basic treatment for UK tap water that every brewer should perform before any grain touches the water to remove Chlorine and Chloramines).

So to summarise my treatment process (Braumeister helps here as it recirculates and heats at the same time):

    1. Treat total water with Campden @ 25C
    2. Test Alk & Ca
    3. Calculate additions with Brewers Friend
    4. Treat with AMS/CRS, circulate 1-2 hours (you can see CO2 being released from the water in the form of tiny bubbles)
    5, Check and adjust Alk, Test pH for info
    6. Treat grist with salts (if required, from calculations)
    7. Heat to strike, mash-in
    8. Check mash pH after 20 mins at first sacch rest

Credit is due to water guru Aleman and the water section who has helped me understand water better through his various threads and posts, but I've no idea what his process is.

Good Luck! :rofl:

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