1850 Again.

IPA, Pale Ales And Bitters, Mild, Brown Ales, Old Ale, Porter & Stouts etc

1850 Again.

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:15

As some of you already know I made the Durden Park 1850 Whitbread Porter some time ago and recieved some very positive reviews, after a post on another forum about the same beer I feel inspired to brew it again, albeit slightly more accurately!

Having done one beer with Chevallier already, I was so impressed I went and obtained another 5 kilos, not for this beer originally but why not.

The recipe is essentially the same albeit I'm substituting the EKG for Bramling Cross and using Wibblers yeast again...Although this is a far descendant of the Whitbread B strain:

Image

A very simple and straight forward recipe, the FG should be higher to give 5.5% but what the hell, if it stops when it's supposed to, then super, if not, 6 is a nice round number.

Fermentation will be cooler than usual at 18°C as per Whitbreads schedule and a 3 hour mash at 66°C+/- any heat loss.

I will decide later wether I am casking in Stainless/Wood/Bottles and if I will bring it to the festival, the scheduled day is this Saturday and if I have enough spare I will send a couple out for a comparison review.

Cheers!

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby BarnsleyBrewer » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:52

Be good to try a drink of this pal...... :drink:

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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Mar 22, 2017 13:11

BarnsleyBrewer wrote:Be good to try a drink of this pal...... :drink:


With or without orange flavouring? :lol:

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby HTH1975 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 13:14

Looks awesome - where you getting Chevallier from?

How different to other UK-grown base malts do you think it is?

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Mar 22, 2017 13:32

Supplied by The Malt Miller as usual, it is a different kettle of fish entirely, being an older variety it requires the extended mash to get all those busy little enzymes going, it seems to contain additional unfermentable sugars over Maris or other regular pale beers.

I mashed at 62°C last time and it did help with the attenuation issues but did result in a bigger dryness, the malt flavour and aroma is much more intense than standard varieties we have now, a real dark fruit/berry tone to it. Simply fantastic.

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
https://theessexbrewer.wordpress.com
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Dennis King » Wed Mar 22, 2017 14:20

Going to buy some of this malt with my next order, sounds interesting.
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Robsta » Wed Mar 22, 2017 17:08

Save some of this for Thursday set up day m8 sounds like it will be a nice brew....

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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Mar 22, 2017 18:04

Robsta wrote:Save some of this for Thursday set up day m8 sounds like it will be a nice brew....


Already told you buddy, someone elses turn this year.

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
https://theessexbrewer.wordpress.com
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Robsta » Wed Mar 22, 2017 20:33

Guess its coffeee then this year

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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby HTH1975 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 21:52

Kyle_T wrote:Supplied by The Malt Miller as usual, it is a different kettle of fish entirely, being an older variety it requires the extended mash to get all those busy little enzymes going, it seems to contain additional unfermentable sugars over Maris or other regular pale beers.

I mashed at 62°C last time and it did help with the attenuation issues but did result in a bigger dryness, the malt flavour and aroma is much more intense than standard varieties we have now, a real dark fruit/berry tone to it. Simply fantastic.


Sounds lovely - may well try some when I do a 70 Shilling again. Bet it would work well for a porter or stout too.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Mar 22, 2017 22:42

It works very well in a Porter, my last beer was the Chevallier version of my standard 5% house beer.

Puts it in a different ball park, only downside is mashing it at 62°C has left it with a somewhat dry finish.

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
https://theessexbrewer.wordpress.com
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby HTH1975 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 23:01

Kyle_T wrote:It works very well in a Porter, my last beer was the Chevallier version of my standard 5% house beer.

Puts it in a different ball park, only downside is mashing it at 62°C has left it with a somewhat dry finish.


Rather than mashing lower, have you tried a more attenuative yeast and/or adding sugar to dry it out a little? Many ways to skin a cat, so to speak.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Mar 22, 2017 23:12

The yeast wasn't the issue, it was on the advice of encouraging additional simple sugars to aid fermentation, my next one I will be aiming for anywhere between 64/66°C.

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
https://theessexbrewer.wordpress.com
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby HTH1975 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 00:43

Kyle_T wrote:The yeast wasn't the issue, it was on the advice of encouraging additional simple sugars to aid fermentation, my next one I will be aiming for anywhere between 64/66°C.


Or maybe try mixing the Chevalier with other base malts.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Rolfster » Thu Mar 23, 2017 08:49

HTH1975 wrote:
Kyle_T wrote:The yeast wasn't the issue, it was on the advice of encouraging additional simple sugars to aid fermentation, my next one I will be aiming for anywhere between 64/66°C.


Or maybe try mixing the Chevalier with other base malts.


I wondered if that was something to do, but wouldn't that kinda defeat the point of doing a historical recipe?
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Kyle_T » Thu Mar 23, 2017 09:10

Nope, many historical recipes used 2 or 3 types of malt for the base such as Pipkin and Halycon.

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
https://theessexbrewer.wordpress.com
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby PeeBee » Thu Mar 23, 2017 17:20

Kyle_T wrote:As some of you already know I made the Durden Park 1850 Whitbread Porter some time ago and recieved some very positive reviews, ...

Inspiring! I'd not even heard of this "Chevalier Malt" (thought it is quite a "new" rediscovery I believe). That lead to getting a copy of Dr John Harrison (and members of The Durden Park Beer Circle) booklet "Old British Beers and How To Make Them". And why buy one book on historical brewing when I could get ten (cheap; I guess I've got the rise of "craft beer" to thank for that).

My brewing methods need a revamp after spending a bit too much time with the (not unwelcome) "101 ways to kill a cat" techniques of DIY Dog and the "craft brewing" <sic> movement. I've not come close to the "101 ways..." yet, but I am beginning to figure out the results always end up with ... well a dead cat.

Thanks for the redirection Kyle.
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Kyle_T » Thu Mar 23, 2017 18:26

No problem.

Just tapped and sampled Chevallier Porter No. 1:

Image

Flipping marvellous, a real richness and dried dark fruit flavour...I wish I didn't have to share it with my brother now

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
https://theessexbrewer.wordpress.com
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby BarnsleyBrewer » Thu Mar 23, 2017 18:50

Is that Durden park book an essential read for a Brewer??

"Brewing Fine Ales in Barnsley Since 1984"
- - - - - - - 30 years (1984 - 2014)- - - - - - -
Pints Brewed in 2017......... 416
Pints brewed in 2016.. 208
Pints brewed in 2015.. 624
Pints brewed in 2014.. 832
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby Kyle_T » Thu Mar 23, 2017 19:27

It is if you want real old recipes and some truly unique beers.

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
https://theessexbrewer.wordpress.com
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby PeeBee » Thu Mar 23, 2017 19:37

Only one left from this source: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/095 ... UTF8&psc=1. But there will be other ways to get yer mitts on one.
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby BarnsleyBrewer » Thu Mar 23, 2017 21:07

You can buy them from their site, is it the right one with recipes?

"Brewing Fine Ales in Barnsley Since 1984"
- - - - - - - 30 years (1984 - 2014)- - - - - - -
Pints Brewed in 2017......... 416
Pints brewed in 2016.. 208
Pints brewed in 2015.. 624
Pints brewed in 2014.. 832
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby thepatchworkdoll » Thu Mar 23, 2017 21:12

Hey Kyle
Ive gone on your reccomendation mate and just purchased this book for £10 off Amazon.
Regards
Patch
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby PeeBee » Fri Mar 24, 2017 00:17

BarnsleyBrewer wrote:You can buy them from their site, is it the right one with recipes?

"Publisher: Durden Park Beer Circle; 3rd Revised edition (18 May 2003)". So yes, it's the right one. It's the uncommon 2nd edition you need to avoid apparently.
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Re: 1850 Again.

Postby HTH1975 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 08:57

I've got Homebrew Classics Stout & Porter by Clive La Pensée and Roger Protz. It's got Durden Park recipes running all the way through it with comments about how to alter/improve things and technical info on how they would have originally brewed the beer (boil times and hopping rates etc).

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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