Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

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Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby R3d Spartan » Thu Mar 26, 2015 18:40

I mixed up a batch of Star San with 5 litres of Tesco budget water on Sunday when i bottled. However i poured it back into the plastic tesco container for storage and it has gone slightly cloudy, does this mean its not working or has finished being effective?

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby pittsy » Thu Mar 26, 2015 18:54

Cloudy star san doesn't mean no good but would you want to risk it ? I use distilled water which will have a ph of 7 and you know for sure it will be good and remain good , The ph of the star san water solution is what it's all about ( but I can't recall the exact ph , somewhere in the 3 i think ) it will prevent growth from nasties at the lower ph .
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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby mickthetrick » Thu Mar 26, 2015 19:19

de-ionised water is cheap enough and tesco stock it
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/ ... =272512807
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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby R3d Spartan » Thu Mar 26, 2015 19:33

Cheers Guys thats really helpful thank you

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby R3d Spartan » Thu Mar 26, 2015 19:53

Cloudy Star San doesn't mean no good but would you want to risk it ?
Well thats my point but why has it gone cloudy and i dont want to risk it. I used the water from Tesco because i live in a hard water area and i thought that would be ok.

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby Aleman » Thu Mar 26, 2015 19:57

Not all bottled waters are suitable, for a non cloudy star san solution., Tesco Ashbeck, Asda Smartprice and Asda Eden Falls are suitable ;)

Was it cloudy before the bottling session, or just after . . . in which case what made it go cloudy ? . . . Star san is so cheap and economical, why re use it?

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby AltonAnt » Thu Mar 26, 2015 20:13

Tesco Ashbeck goes cloudy for me but I've had it in containers for 6 months or more without any signs of anything growing.
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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby Strongarm » Thu Mar 26, 2015 21:16

I've noticed Asda water go cloudy after a while. Doesnt happen with tesco stuff.

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby PhatFil » Thu Mar 26, 2015 22:29

going cloudy is just a visual indicator it may be spent the acid test is an acid test, check the ph with a cheap book of indicator papers iirc as long as its 2.5ph or lower ?? - its still active, even if cloudy..

+1 for tesco ashbeck water as a starsan base tho i have had some mixed and stood 6months still clear with an active low ph..
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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby CJV8 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 08:39

I used Starsan for the first time a few weeks back and it went cloudy when it was mixed.
I used tap water though, so maybe this batch is for the bin?

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby krazypara3165 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 09:20

Tesco Ashbeck seems to of changed. The last lot I had lasted over 12 months. This year it goes cloudy after a week or so, tried it twice more (different batch numbers) with the same result. Moving over to deionised water now.

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby Kyle_T » Fri Mar 27, 2015 09:27

Now I bought 20L of Tesco Ashbeck water and the whole lot went milky white as soon as I added the starsan, it's still sitting in the garage.

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby GrowlingDog » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:01

My TESCO Ashbeck goes cloudy as well. The pH of the solution is fine so I use it anyway. I believe the pH is more important than the cloudiness.
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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby brewpete » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:04

I live in a very hard water area and my Starsan solutions go very cloudy instantly with my tap water. However, I've tested the pH of the solution and it is always somewhere between 2 and 3 which is within the effective range. Starsan is cheap enough to make up a fresh solution with each brew (even though I've also tested solutions which are a week old and they are still in the 2-3 range). I've never had any problems with this method.
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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby Aleman » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:13

The cloudiness is due to the sequesterant combining with calcium ions, the then precipitate (or not actually) while not affecting the pH or necessarily the active ingredient, it does reduce the effectiveness of the solution, as the sequesterant helps with 'clingyness' of the solution. . . I've not bought Ashbeck for a year or more so perhaps it has changed, although as it's the same source as the other two I'd mentioned, I would expect the same thing to happen with them now. When I was testing another waterI did get some cloudiness (not a great deal), but this was easily remedied with the addition of a few ml of 75% phosphoic acid to the 5L bottle, cloudiness gone . . . and it stayed gone over some months so it was a stable fix as well.

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby R3d Spartan » Fri Mar 27, 2015 13:30

Tesco Ashbeck seems to of changed. The last lot I had lasted over 12 months. This year it goes cloudy after a week or so, tried it twice more (different batch numbers) with the same result. Moving over to deionised water now.

Glad i'm not the only one this has happened to then but yeh i think Deionised Water is the way to go

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby Wee_Dave » Fri Mar 27, 2015 19:48

I kit brew and use star San.

I make up 2l (Tesco or morrisons 17p water) and use it to sterilise all my equipment from brew to bottling then dump it.

It's cloudy after I've sterilised all my kit, but gets funnelled back into the bottle then used again to do bottles, caps, bottling bucket etc.

Never had an infection yet.

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby GrahamT » Fri Mar 27, 2015 20:12

It's been my understanding that as long as the pH is 3.5 or below, it's working, and that water with higher alkalinity (likely to be more cloudy with Star San) will require more of the product to achieve that acidity. The result (I thought...) is that some question whether it is then safe as a no-rinse sanitiser. My own view, having done some kitchen table maths, is that I'm happy with it for our uses.

As others have said though, it's cheap as chips, so if in doubt, use fresh with suitable water.

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby mickthetrick » Fri Mar 27, 2015 20:54

this is an interesting listen. its the fella that made star san.
http://ec.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390da96899 ... id=1452161
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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby GrahamT » Fri Mar 27, 2015 21:48

mickthetrick wrote:this is an interesting listen. its the fella that made star san.
http://ec.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390da96899 ... id=1452161


That was a fantastic link, thanks. For anybody whose seen these many Star San threads, but not heard that - listen now, straight from the horse's mouth.

Unfortunately... it was all going really well (..."as long as it's below pH 3.5, it's working", or words to that effect - nice and simple), until at 38 mins he confuses the issue by saying there are two ways of telling the effectiveness: the pH AND the turbidity (clarity). :doh: Well I've had cloudy Star San that is still pH 3, so the fog of doubt remains.

He (Star San creator) does suggest using de-ionised water there, at least if it is to be stored and reused, as the minerals in water will 'win out' and create a hard water 'soap', hence the cloudiness. I think I've had Ashbeck (low, rather than trace/zero minerals) Star San solution go cloudy over time, which is explained by that, I guess.

I didn't realise Star San is a detergent as well as a sanitiser, either.

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby rpt » Mon Aug 17, 2015 16:40

Is adding AMS a good way of getting rid of the cloudiness?

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby Aleman » Mon Aug 17, 2015 16:43

rpt wrote:Is adding AMS a good way of getting rid of the cloudiness?

Not really, while it does get rid of the cloudiness, ultimately it is the calcium and magnesium that contributes to the formation of soap, and the eventual clouding over time.

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby rpt » Mon Aug 17, 2015 16:45

So why is phosphoric acid better?

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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby Aleman » Mon Aug 17, 2015 16:49

I can only think it's because it combines with calcium forming a precipitate, preventing it from forming the soap

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Re: Slightly cloudy Star San wtf?

Postby RidleyRumpus » Mon Aug 17, 2015 18:55

Wouldnt boiled kettle water of water boiled in the HLT work?
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