Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby supersteve » Mon Feb 22, 2016 17:36

You shouldn't need to touch anything the beer comes in contact with, your hands shouldn't be going into the FV after you've sanitised it.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby ockelford » Mon Feb 22, 2016 17:44

xCamel xSlayer wrote:
ockelford wrote:Hi,

I just ensure coverage of every surface using swilling or a spray bottle to cover it several times ensuring it stays wet for 1 minute minumum. Just leave tools like thermometers and hydromoters in the solution and its fine, it won't taste. As long as its wet, it keeps killing the bugs. Just don't touch sterilised surfaces and you're fine!

R


How do you handle the sterilised equipment? Do you all wear gloved whilst brewing?


Well, if you have a thermometer, pick it up by the end which doesn't go in the beer, same with hydrometer. You can put your hands in Starsan to pick them up, but at worst it dries your skin, like any acid. Just think in terms of being careful with the surfaces that touch the beer. E.g. you don't sanitise the outside of the fermenting vessel, nor do you need to sanitise the handle of the thermometer as it doesn't touch the beer. I can't think of any equipment the needs to be submersed in the beer and needs to be touched by (mucky) human hands...

R
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Mon Feb 22, 2016 17:50

Fair point, I'm just being over cautious!
I'm so nervous I'm gonna screw up you see!
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby f00b4r » Mon Feb 22, 2016 18:47

I always use disposable gloves post boil although others may disagree, there is a reason medical professionals actually get taught how to scrub their hands and fingernails properly and it is easy to sanitize your hands with clean gloves on (sanitation only works on already cleaned things).
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Aleman » Mon Feb 22, 2016 18:53

Just remember we are making beer, not performing open heart surgery!

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Mon Feb 22, 2016 20:04

Aleman wrote:Just remember we are making beer, not performing open heart surgery!


Tbh I don't know which seems more daunting mate..!
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby PhatFil » Mon Feb 22, 2016 23:56

basically its a numbers game we play when brewing. the air around us contains spores and microlife in abundence not to mention the bacteria and yeast that are crawling all over our skin..

and we are preparing a microlife baquet in abundance 5 gallons of it in most cases.

the probability of preparing a kit or any brew in a domestic environment and getting it into the FV and lidded without anything unwanted landing in there too is astronomical, you have a better chance of winning the lottery 6 times in a row,

Our secret weapon is the HUGE population of yeast we pitch in the billions of cells.
these out eat and starve off any competitive microlife in most cases, infections are rare when cleanliness and sanitation is carried out effectively.

just do what you can.. i use starsan and have used videne, in both cases I have a bowl of sanitiser to soak the bits and bobs that will get manhandled, the airlock bung or a corny lid for example, dipping my clean hands in to retrieve the items sanitises my fingers on the way in too ;)

i did get some latex gloves but my hands feel uncomfortable in them, hot n itchy after a lil while, but its not a bad idea to use em if you can stand having them on.

if you use starsan a trigger spray bottle is great for dispersing it into bottles or onto fv inner walls.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Sun Mar 13, 2016 16:09

supersteve wrote:Yes, the starsan solution you just created and used to sanitise your fv can then be poured into a bottle to use on the rest of your equipment.

try and get as much out as possible by just holding it upside down but don't worry about the foam.. it has it's own saying "Don't fear the foam"


When you say "don't fear the foam"... I've tried uploading a photo but it's too big apparently. When I filled my FV with the 23 litres of water... it foamed up like a bath! Presumably this will deplete in a little while? I'm just dissolving my campden tablet atm.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby PhatFil » Sun Mar 13, 2016 16:43

xCamel xSlayer wrote:
supersteve wrote:Yes, the starsan solution you just created and used to sanitise your fv can then be poured into a bottle to use on the rest of your equipment.

try and get as much out as possible by just holding it upside down but don't worry about the foam.. it has it's own saying "Don't fear the foam"


When you say "don't fear the foam"... I've tried uploading a photo but it's too big apparently. When I filled my FV with the 23 litres of water... it foamed up like a bath! Presumably this will deplete in a little while? I'm just dissolving my campden tablet atm.


as long as the foam is residual from the sanitation no problem..

are u sure u rinsed off any detergents or soaps, neither are good for brewing ...

for large surface areas a trigger spay bottle is ideal for applying starsan sanitiser, i mixup 5l a time which is sufficient for many brews when applied via spray..
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby robwalker » Sun Mar 13, 2016 20:02

I stupidly used perecetic acid hot the other day, what an experience that was! Like having pepper forced up your nose.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby cyclops » Mon Mar 14, 2016 08:48

robwalker wrote:I stupidly used perecetic acid hot the other day, what an experience that was! Like having pepper forced up your nose.


That's one you don't want to repeat again.

robwalker wrote:I stupidly used perecetic acid hot the other day, what an experience that was! Like having pepper forced up your nose.

Cheap Toys and Games at http://www.thetoydiscounter.com
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Maysie » Tue Mar 15, 2016 16:09

rpt wrote:I don't think you are meant to leave things soaking in oxi clean for more than about 20 minutes, especially if you have hard water, as it will leave a residue. I find 10 minutes is plenty long enough for cleaning my brewing gear.

I wish I had known this when I left 80 of my bottles soaking for 2 hrs in an Oxi/hard water mix!

It meant I then had to spend the next 2 days cleaning the chalky residue off, which was virtually impossible to remove from the inside of the bottles. I guess citric acid would have helped, if I had some of course.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby MrBoy » Tue Mar 15, 2016 16:35

PhatFil wrote:basically its a numbers game we play when brewing. the air around us contains spores and microlife in abundence not to mention the bacteria and yeast that are crawling all over our skin..

and we are preparing a microlife baquet in abundance 5 gallons of it in most cases.

the probability of preparing a kit or any brew in a domestic environment and getting it into the FV and lidded without anything unwanted landing in there too is astronomical, you have a better chance of winning the lottery 6 times in a row,

Our secret weapon is the HUGE population of yeast we pitch in the billions of cells.
these out eat and starve off any competitive microlife in most cases, infections are rare when cleanliness and sanitation is carried out effectively.
This is well explained. In most cases you could simply wash all your kit with soapy water and it would be just fine - sterilising is just about making it even less likely you'll get an infection.

When you look into the history of brewing, it's quite eye-opening - for 99% of the history of beer we not only didn't know how to sanitise our equipment, we didn't even know what was causing it to ferment!
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Aleman » Tue Mar 15, 2016 19:22

MrBoy wrote:
PhatFil wrote:This is well explained. In most cases you could simply wash all your kit with soapy water and it would be just fine

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Soap of any kind shape or form should never come into contact with equipment used for brewing. It's a bstard to rinse properly and completely and will cause head retention issues if not rinsed adequately.

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby MrBoy » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:35

I've been using this no-rinse steriliser once the small tub of VWP I got with my starter kit ran out: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Harris-No-Rinse ... B00STG0G4W

It's running out and I am trying to work out the benefits and cost difference between buying this again (about £5 for 200g) or a small bottle of Star San HB for nearly £20! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-San-HB-Sta ... B00M9K79H6

The plus side would be no having to dissolve granules but it seems quite pricey.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Aleman » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:44

Well your Harris stuff is only Percarbonate so nothing special . . . I'd certainly not use it no rinse . . .it's a cleanser with 'some' disinfection action.

Personally I's Use an 'Oxi' cleanser and either Star San (Yes it's expensive but you use 8.5ml in 5Litres!!) or an Iodophor as a no rinse steriliser.

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby MrBoy » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:55

You wouldn't use it without rinsing, or you wouldn't use it? It's worked well for me although to be honest I reckon 9 times out of 10 just rinsing your stuff with water you wouldn't get infection.

Does the StarSan provide a way to get out only a few ml at a time? I typically only need 1-2L made up - drop the taps and stuff in a small jug, spray the FV with a plant mister.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:57

MrBoy wrote:I've been using this no-rinse steriliser once the small tub of VWP I got with my starter kit ran out: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Harris-No-Rinse ... B00STG0G4W

It's running out and I am trying to work out the benefits and cost difference between buying this again (about £5 for 200g) or a small bottle of Star San HB for nearly £20! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-San-HB-Sta ... B00M9K79H6

The plus side would be no having to dissolve granules but it seems quite pricey.



Saves you a couple of quid at least...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-San-Five ... 35fbac9873
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:59

I had no idea about the "no soap" thing though.
I used fairy washing up liquid to clean out my FV the other day.
What SHOULD I be using then?
I got some VWP stuff in my kit I bought...
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:00

MrBoy wrote:You wouldn't use it without rinsing, or you wouldn't use it? It's worked well for me although to be honest I reckon 9 times out of 10 just rinsing your stuff with water you wouldn't get infection.

Does the StarSan provide a way to get out only a few ml at a time? I typically only need 1-2L made up - drop the taps and stuff in a small jug, spray the FV with a plant mister.


Star san is easy mate. You just squeeze the bottle, and it transfers in to the measuring pod.
It measures 5ml, 15ml and 25ml (I think) so it is really easy to know how much you are about it pour out.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Aleman » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:03

MrBoy wrote:You wouldn't use it without rinsing, or you wouldn't use it? It's worked well for me although to be honest I reckon 9 times out of 10 just rinsing your stuff with water you wouldn't get infection.

I wouldn't use it without rising . . .but then I have always had an issue with cleaning and disinfecting something and then rinsing with something that potentially harbours nasties . . . The CBA did publish an article a few years ago about plating water samples on agar plates and seeing what grew . . . it was a bit of an eye opener for some.

I make up 5Litres of star san at a time using deionised water from Halfords, so a 10ml syringe from ebay is convenient . . .you can get 1ml syringes as well, and the starsan bottle is of the type with a dosage 'cup' on top so it's easy to get it out.

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby MrBoy » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:13

Oh, is SS stable once made up? THat's much easier, I was assuming like the stuff I have it deteriorates in a few days.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Aleman » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:48

As long as you use the right water then you can make star san up and store it. I use Deionised or RO water to make it up. If you use tap water and it goes cloudy then you can't store it but have to use it that day.

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Maysie » Thu Mar 31, 2016 13:50

MrBoy wrote:Oh, is SS stable once made up? THat's much easier, I was assuming like the stuff I have it deteriorates in a few days.

Ashbeck bottled water from Tescos used to be great for mixing StarSan, but a few people have had issues with it recently.

My last batch was absolutely fine and I am due to buy some more in the next 10 days, so I will keep you posted. I mix mine in 2 litre bottle batches for sanitising generally, but I also decant some into a water-squirter-spray-thingy for convenient 'blasting' onto surfaces as required.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Dennis King » Thu Mar 31, 2016 17:53

The Malt millers own brand "star San" http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.ph ... ductId=497 and that's for a 500ml bottle.
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