Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Sun Apr 10, 2016 15:50

Did I read somewhere that if your star san mix goes cloudy it's no good for storing in a spray bottle?
Mine did that...

What do I need waterwise in order to stop that happening?
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby GAZ9053 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 15:51

RO or de ionised water.

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Sun Apr 10, 2016 15:56

Is it OK to use whilst in the bucket for a few hours or is it basically pointless ?
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby GAZ9053 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 15:56

I used mine for a while when cloudy.

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby PhatFil » Sun Apr 10, 2016 16:31

My understanding - and please correct me if wrong, is that going cloudy is only an indicator that the acidic quality that makes starsan effective is spent. However its not a guarantee. A cheap book of PH indicator strips is a useful aid to test the acidity of a starsan solution and as long as its ph is below 3 its still active even if its cloudy..
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Sun Apr 10, 2016 17:09

PhatFil wrote:My understanding - and please correct me if wrong, is that going cloudy is only an indicator that the acidic quality that makes starsan effective is spent. However its not a guarantee. A cheap book of PH indicator strips is a useful aid to test the acidity of a starsan solution and as long as its ph is below 3 its still active even if its cloudy..


On that basis I've binned it just until I'm sure. Not worth risking a whole batch on a little extra star san usage!
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby PhatFil » Sun Apr 10, 2016 17:35

even as a single use sanitiser starsan is still vgvfm its persistence in a suitable water solution was just a handy bonus. Tesco ashbeck water at £1 for 5l has been used by quite a few folk in hard water areas to make up their starsan solutions, but i read recently that it too now goes cloudy on mixing..

RO water can be sourced from tropical fish retailers, our local shop is happy to give 50l to anyone asking for it, others may charge, you can also get lab grade pure water delivered for about a pound a litre if you buy 10l+ ;)
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Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby f00b4r » Sun Apr 10, 2016 20:03

Aleman wrote:As long as you use the right water then you can make star san up and store it. I use Deionised or RO water to make it up. If you use tap water and it goes cloudy then you can't store it but have to use it that day.


I use deionised water for long term storage so I have some on hand and some in a spray bottle to sanitise emptied and rinsed bottles as I drink my beer, it is cheap and available in the car maintenance section of supermarkets. For brew days I use Ashbeck as it usually stays clear but if not then it is no biggie and I just throw away at the end of the day.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Sun Apr 10, 2016 20:30

I used it throughout my last brew and nothing seemed to get infected but I won't risk it for this one. I'll grab some water tomorrow to use in the spray bottle.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Sun Apr 17, 2016 15:43

Just picked up some De-ionised water from Halfords.
I've made a mix now and stuck it in my spray bottle.
I noticed when I poured out the contents of the spray bottle, which was made up in Feb when I did my first brew... it was crystal clear.
Does it have something to do with oxygen in air, turning it cloudy? My bucket of sanitised water last week was cloudy as, so it's strange that my spray bottle was perfectly clear.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby HTH1975 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:53

My water (as per Murphys analysis) is soft and starsan still goes cloudy. It has 50% phosphoric acid too, so that will knock the pH right down - mine measured 2.2pH if I remember rightly.

I've not had any infections, so I'm not concerned about it turning cloudy and disguard it after each brew day.

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Maysie » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:32

PhatFil wrote:Tesco ashbeck water at £1 for 5l has been used by quite a few folk in hard water areas to make up their starsan solutions, but i read recently that it too now goes cloudy on mixing..

I had a couple of bottles of Ashbeck that did this a while back, but all has been well with the last half a dozen bottles I have used so Ashbeck is still an option worth trying.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby MrBoy » Wed Jun 22, 2016 16:23

I feel such a dolt asking this, but I have bought a bottle of star san (the brown one, might be a slightly different name).

Anyway it has one of those weedkiller-style dual pourers, one with a little bulb marker 5/10/15ml clearly so you can safely measure out a small amount. But I can't figure out how to use the damn thing. I can't get the stuff out of there back into the main bottle, and when I try to pour what's in there it comes up the tube at the side and re-fills it.

I'm scared I'll make a much stronger concentration at which point it is not no-rinse... can someone give me an idiot's guide?! Never sued this before though I've seen them around.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby octoscott » Wed Jun 22, 2016 16:44

MrBoy wrote:I feel such a dolt asking this, but I have bought a bottle of star san (the brown one, might be a slightly different name).

Anyway it has one of those weedkiller-style dual pourers, one with a little bulb marker 5/10/15ml clearly so you can safely measure out a small amount. But I can't figure out how to use the damn thing. I can't get the stuff out of there back into the main bottle, and when I try to pour what's in there it comes up the tube at the side and re-fills it.

I'm scared I'll make a much stronger concentration at which point it is not no-rinse... can someone give me an idiot's guide?! Never sued this before though I've seen them around.


Get yourself a 5ml syringe. Simplest/easiest way to measure out the star san
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby oz11 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 20:17

Remove the cap from the smaller receptacle then gently squeeze the bottle while keeping it upright.

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby bubblehead » Mon Aug 15, 2016 15:38

Good afternoon brewers,

does anyone out there know about using FAM30?

I know there's a mention of it in the "guide" but there seems to be differing info on dilution rates depending on it's application, and those applications are all farming related.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Aleman » Mon Aug 15, 2016 16:42

You need to dilute it to between 12.5 to 25 ppm free iodine for no rinse brewing usage.

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby bubblehead » Mon Aug 15, 2016 17:51

Thanks for the info Aleman.

The contents appear to be : 9.5% w/w Phosphoric Acid, 9.3% w/w Sulphuric Acid & 2.75% w/w minimum Iodine,.

How do I convert this into ppm or maybe I should ask what w/w means?

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Saccharomyces » Tue Aug 16, 2016 17:45

bubblehead wrote:Thanks for the info Aleman.

The contents appear to be : 9.5% w/w Phosphoric Acid, 9.3% w/w Sulphuric Acid & 2.75% w/w minimum Iodine,.

How do I convert this into ppm or maybe I should ask what w/w means?


The iodine has been given as a percentage, percentages need to be dimensionless and therefore the percentage is given as the weight of iodine divided by the total weight of the solvent (w/w). I have seen some crazy people list the same as weight of solute divided by total volume (w/v) but that is meaningless because it can't be expressed as a percentage if it has dimensions.

This gives you ~2.75 g of iodine per 100 g, or if you prefer, the same 2.75 grams per 100 ml to a first approximation. As ppm for a solution is mg per litre, your stock solution is therefore roughly 27500 ppm, unless my maths is way off.

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby bubblehead » Wed Aug 17, 2016 14:19

Thank you Saccharomyces.

So without me going into how I came up with this figure, can you tell me if this is right please?

0.45mL stock diluted with water to make 1L. is roughly = 12.5ppm

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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby Saccharomyces » Wed Aug 17, 2016 16:20

Yes, that number seems right. However...

..don't dilute it as you described - you will probably create a huge error in the dilution because it is difficult to measure out a small volume and the error in that measurement is multiplied when you dilute it 2000x.

It would be better to do a serial dilution, say a 1/20 dilution to create a new stock solution, then perform a second dilution of this stock (1/100 of the 1/20) for a working solution of 1/2000 original strength.

Makes sense, I hope? This way around you can do a 1 ml in 20 ml followed by 5 in 500 ml etc. It will be much easier to handle these volumes and more accurate, too.
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Re: Guide to Cleaners and Sterilisers

Postby bubblehead » Wed Aug 17, 2016 16:52

Makes perfect sense. I would have maybe gone the other route and made something like a 5L. with 2.25mL. But I like your idea of an intermediate stock solution and will do it that way instead.
So at this dilution Fam30 would produce a very economical no rinse sanitizer (Around about £40 for 5L. delivered).

I found this :

http://www.physiologyweb.com/calculator ... t_pph.html

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