Mixing dried yeast strains

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Mixing dried yeast strains

Postby Bad 'Ed » Thu Mar 29, 2018 14:01

Unusually for me I fancy brewing a 6.5-7% pale ale this weekend. I've been quite enjoying the Stone IPA (a dry 6.9% and 70 ibu).

I was planning on pitching two packets of Nottingham (11g) but is 6.5 really high enough to warrant two packs?

I also have a pack of Windsor which needs using up - I've never dual pitched before but am I right in thinking that doing this would allow Windsor to do half the work at the beginning, before dropping out when the alcohol gets too much?

Never enough time....
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Re: Mixing dried yeast strains

Postby robwalker » Thu Mar 29, 2018 16:34

Naw, one of the strains will usually dominate. I think you'd be alright with 1 pack to be honest, Nottingham is a beast. What you could do is start with the Windsor for esters and then dry it out with Nottingham, but probably defeating the point of pitching more yeast.
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Re: Mixing dried yeast strains

Postby jkp » Fri Mar 30, 2018 06:55

From my few experiences with Windsor I wouldn't recommend using it, ever. Almost every time it starts quickly but also ends quickly with a high FG like 1.020 even with a double pitching. Each time, pitching later with another strain like Nottingham or US-05 also doesn't seem to work. It's as if Windsor creates a hostile environment for other yeast strains. I've read about "killer strains" of yeast, is Windsor possibly one of those?

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Re: Mixing dried yeast strains

Postby Saccharomyces » Fri Mar 30, 2018 08:27

jkp wrote:From my few experiences with Windsor I wouldn't recommend using it, ever. Almost every time it starts quickly but also ends quickly with a high FG like 1.020 even with a double pitching. Each time, pitching later with another strain like Nottingham or US-05 also doesn't seem to work. It's as if Windsor creates a hostile environment for other yeast strains. I've read about "killer strains" of yeast, is Windsor possibly one of those?


Windsor does not utilise maltotriose, which is present as one of the more abundant sugars in wort.

Allegedly, maltotriose is aerobically respired, so I am wondering if the low oxygen environment prevents Notty from chewing through the maltotriose?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 5691031880
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Re: Mixing dried yeast strains

Postby HTH1975 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 20:05

Split between two FVs and ferment with the two different yeasts. You can then blend to taste. I do this quite a lot and it’s a great way of assessing the impact of a yeast strain and gives a different level of complexity than you can achieve otherwise, imo.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Mixing dried yeast strains

Postby Bad 'Ed » Sat Mar 31, 2018 13:29

I'm going to go with just Nottingham as Rob suggests and see how well it performs with higher gravity wort.

I do like HTH's idea as well though; I made a 2.3% pale a year or so ago with Windsor which turned out surprisingly nice. I could brew both (somehow) and blend some of them.

I'd just need to get agreement that a second brewfridge is necessary...

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Re: Mixing dried yeast strains

Postby jkp » Sun Apr 01, 2018 15:25

Saccharomyces wrote:
jkp wrote:From my few experiences with Windsor I wouldn't recommend using it, ever. Almost every time it starts quickly but also ends quickly with a high FG like 1.020 even with a double pitching. Each time, pitching later with another strain like Nottingham or US-05 also doesn't seem to work. It's as if Windsor creates a hostile environment for other yeast strains. I've read about "killer strains" of yeast, is Windsor possibly one of those?


Windsor does not utilise maltotriose, which is present as one of the more abundant sugars in wort.

Allegedly, maltotriose is aerobically respired, so I am wondering if the low oxygen environment prevents Notty from chewing through the maltotriose?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 5691031880


Thanks for that answer, very interesting. Does that mean that yeast strains which can utilise maltotriose will do so during the early stages of fermentation while there is still oxygen present? That would seem to go against the general wisdom that they go for glucose/maltose first.

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Re: Mixing dried yeast strains

Postby Saccharomyces » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:11

Regarding the maltotriose utilisation, a bit of digging suggests that some strains need oxygen, some don’t but most brewing strains have an oxygen-dependent component.

Interestingly the maltotriose transporter is the maltose transporter, and these differ between lager and ale strains of yeast as well as between the two ‘clans’ of lager yeast. It might explain the higher oxygen requirements for lagers, or perhaps explain a component of the requirement.

Unless, of course, I misread the article, it is here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1214619/

It would be nice to know which Wyeast/Whitelabs strains would benefit from additional aeration to reach their highest attenuation, and which don’t. Would save me a bit of cash/time on brew day!
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