Invert sugar group buy

Sugars, finings and anything else

Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby HTH1975 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:21

BarnsleyBrewer wrote:Been fermenting with Nottingham for 5 days now so had a cheeky sample yesterday, :o And very nice it is too, I hope it continues like this when fermentation is finally complete........ :party: :drink:


Good to hear mate :cheers:
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby rats_eyes » Fri Aug 25, 2017 13:27

How are you all adding this sugar? Early or late in the boil?

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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby jaroporter » Fri Aug 25, 2017 13:37

BarnsleyBrewer wrote:Been fermenting with Nottingham for 5 days now so had a cheeky sample yesterday,


dammit now i gotta go check mine.. concerned due to low ferment temps you see.. :roll:

UPDATE: 1,011. usual ~75% attenuation for this point. probably drop another point in cask. early taste promising. will need a dryhop to replace those missing late hops though..
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby BarnsleyBrewer » Fri Aug 25, 2017 16:27

rats_eyes wrote:How are you all adding this sugar? Early or late in the boil?

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Added mine at around 45 mins into my usual hour boil....
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby HTH1975 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 18:39

I'm adding it around 20 mins from the end - just enough time to dissolve it before I add the Irish moss and dunk the immersion chiller in the wort for the last 15 mins.

Will be interesting to hear what FG you all get as mine has attenuated down to around 1.006-1.008, which is low for the Yorkshire yeast strains I used (and previous experience). I expected higher attenuation though.
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby jaroporter » Thu Sep 28, 2017 15:56

well it's been 'bout 5 weeks guys, so c'mon, hows it all going?

i tapped mine a coupla days ago, and am really pleased. and especially a lot of killer reviews from the usual tasting panel too.
forgetting the late hops was probably a good thing in the end as it attenuated slightly more than usual (~80% attenuation compared to usual ~75% - bout 2-3 gravity points) and is about perfectly balanced at around 32 ibus. i've been pushing hops a bit lately as 75% attenuation with chloride favoured water was leaving some beers bordering a little sweet.
interestingly it's still got a big straw/marmalade/strawberry hit from the challenger up front

there is a definite difference in flavour there compared to ales i've made with just pale malt, or even pale and light crystal. in fact i think it's similar to the only other beer i've made with [homemade] invert no3 so i think there's a clear contribution in the final product. probably expected a more obvious hit to be honest, but it melds together smoothly in the background and does make the ale taste very "traditional". to be fair, a side-by-side with half that amount of invert would probably help to really see what it's adding. not claiming to have the best tasting skills either!

vital statistics you were all waiting for..
pale - invert % 87-13
1,044 - 1,008 @ 67C
wlp007 @ ~17C

next i think i'll go to the other end of the scale with a barleywine (again bout 15% invert) to see how much / what sort of flavour comes though, but otherwise i'll probably just end up using it all in more like this to try get the most out of it. very happy :D
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby HTH1975 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 20:20

jaroporter wrote:next i think i'll go to the other end of the scale with a barleywine (again bout 15% invert) to see how much / what sort of flavour comes though, but otherwise i'll probably just end up using it all in more like this to try get the most out of it. very happy :D


Great minds think alike - I've been planning a barley wine too. Not with the #3 invert mind, but that could definitely add further complexity.

What yeast are you planning on using to combat the high ABV?

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby f00b4r » Thu Sep 28, 2017 20:37

I know Eric and others have added sugar to the FV with good results before so if you wanted to split a batch of wort and add varying amounts of invert to it in the FV for comparisons sake it might make for an interesting test.
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby jaroporter » Fri Sep 29, 2017 09:45

HTH1975 wrote:What yeast are you planning on using to combat the high ABV?


007 again. it's pretty much a house yeast at this point and it been fun/enlightening to really get to know it well.


f00b4r, i was tempted to do some splits, and may still just for curiosity's sake if i get a chance. certainly been toying with adding sugar to the FV with the barleywine to help keep yeast stress down, but i'm really not sure yet as i've had inconsistent results doing it before (maybe waited too long before adding.. ?).
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby f00b4r » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:46

jaroporter wrote:f00b4r, i was tempted to do some splits, and may still just for curiosity's sake if i get a chance. certainly been toying with adding sugar to the FV with the barleywine to help keep yeast stress down, but i'm really not sure yet as i've had inconsistent results doing it before (maybe waited too long before adding.. ?).


I know from asking Eric (as I wanted to try this myself) that he dissolves it in a small amount of near boiling water, treated to remove the alkalinity. It's then comes to the same temperature and added on the second day when the krausen is fully formed. Apparently it can be quite spectacular :)
Were your adding it much later when you tried before?
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby jaroporter » Fri Sep 29, 2017 13:14

yeah it was fairly later. i was trying to hit towards the end to encourage the yeast onto most of the complex sugars before giving it the simple sugars (forum suggestions, seemed logical). that was for tripels that i wanted as dry as possible. i suppose it does also sound reasonable to add just after the reproduction stage, past when most of the fusels/esters would be created under stressed conditions?
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby jaroporter » Tue Oct 17, 2017 13:58

this weekend i brewed a quick couple more with this as i wanted a load of yeast slurry for cider. trying nottingham yeast this time as maltmiller was out of 007 and i wanted something fast-floccing and reasonably clean.

X
pale-invert 87-13
1,043 @ 67C
challenger 35 bu

XPA
pale-invert 92-8
1,055 @ 67C
challenger (x3) ~100 bu

wont be sure of the full effect of the XPA yet as it'll be casked for 6 months with brett c, but the X is more of the same, as the last one was so damned tasty! barleywine still to come when i can be bothered to get the big tun out..

anyone else sampling?
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby BarnsleyBrewer » Tue Oct 17, 2017 15:49

Done Barnsley Bitter my way with invert in on Sunday, will report back upon sampling. :drink:

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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby rats_eyes » Wed Oct 18, 2017 18:32

I've used this in a couple of beers so far and am enjoying the results. The first was a Fullers mild recipe lifted from Ron Pattinson's website. It's a really easy drinker despite having a decent 6.3% ABV. I've not used invert#3 before, but I'm pretty sure it's added a different flavour to this, a smooth and light toffee/caramel sweetness, really tasty stuff. This one won't last long...

Batch Size (fermenter): 19.00 l

Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 31.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 36.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.7 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------

1.460 kg Mild Malt (7.9 EBC) 34.1 %
1.357 kg Golden Promise (Simpsons) (3.9 EBC) 31.7 %
0.313 kg Maize, Flaked (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) 7.3 %
4 g Target [10.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min 4.7 IBUs
43 g Fuggles [6.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min 31.8 IBUs
1.150 kg Invert Sugar #3 [Boil for 30 min] 26.9 %
English Ale (White Labs #WLP002)

Mash In 68.9 C 75 min
Mash Out 75.6 C 10 min
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby HTH1975 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 20:32

rats_eyes wrote:I've used this in a couple of beers so far and am enjoying the results. The first was a Fullers mild recipe lifted from Ron Pattinson's website. It's a really easy drinker despite having a decent 6.3% ABV. I've not used invert#3 before, but I'm pretty sure it's added a different flavour to this, a smooth and light toffee/caramel sweetness, really tasty stuff. This one won't last long...

Batch Size (fermenter): 19.00 l

Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 31.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 36.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.7 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------

1.460 kg Mild Malt (7.9 EBC) 34.1 %
1.357 kg Golden Promise (Simpsons) (3.9 EBC) 31.7 %
0.313 kg Maize, Flaked (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) 7.3 %
4 g Target [10.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min 4.7 IBUs
43 g Fuggles [6.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min 31.8 IBUs
1.150 kg Invert Sugar #3 [Boil for 30 min] 26.9 %
English Ale (White Labs #WLP002)

Mash In 68.9 C 75 min
Mash Out 75.6 C 10 min


That sounds bloody gorgeous - would love to try it.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby BarnsleyBrewer » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:50

Sampled my Barnsley Bitter from the keg last night that I made nearly 4 weeks ago...... WOW, tastes fantastic, more body, more taste, one of my finest beers ever made...... 400g in a 13 gallon brew.
Might brew this for next years festival. :drink:

I will definitely be part of the next group buy if it happens again next year.... :thumb:

BB

Oh and the recipe is secret, would anyone dare ask Mr Kippling how he makes exceedingly good cakes? Lol :D

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Pints brewed in 2016.. 208
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby jaroporter » Fri Nov 10, 2017 16:43

great to hear it's worked out so well BB! what did substitute the invert in for? (that's not giving too much away, surely? i actually would ask mr kipling for his recipe, but i think i know where he might tell me to go.. )

can't be a coincidence that my last was one of the best i've ever done too. i'm desperate to tap the rebrew but wanna let it sit another week or so.
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby Dennis King » Fri Nov 10, 2017 20:12

BarnsleyBrewer wrote:Might brew this for next years festival. :drink:


Might hold you to that pal. :cheers:
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby HTH1975 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 21:45

Glad the invert sugar is working out for everyone.

I don’t really have beers I’ve made enough to compare how it affects things. However, the Landlord clone I made was very good - definitely in the ballpark. I’d probably up the invert sugar from 6% to 10% next time and increase the IBUs as well. Also a bit wheat malt for head retention.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby BarnsleyBrewer » Sat Nov 11, 2017 07:26

jaroporter wrote:great to hear it's worked out so well BB! what did substitute the invert in for? (that's not giving too much away, surely? i actually would ask mr kipling for his recipe, but i think i know where he might tell me to go.. )

can't be a coincidence that my last was one of the best i've ever done too. i'm desperate to tap the rebrew but wanna let it sit another week or so.

Hi J.
I would've normally used 500g of white sugar.

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- - - - - - - 30 years (1984 - 2014)- - - - - - -
Pints Brewed in 2017......... 416
Pints brewed in 2016.. 208
Pints brewed in 2015.. 624
Pints brewed in 2014.. 832
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Re: Invert sugar group buy

Postby HTH1975 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 17:29

BarnsleyBrewer wrote:
jaroporter wrote:great to hear it's worked out so well BB! what did substitute the invert in for? (that's not giving too much away, surely? i actually would ask mr kipling for his recipe, but i think i know where he might tell me to go.. )

can't be a coincidence that my last was one of the best i've ever done too. i'm desperate to tap the rebrew but wanna let it sit another week or so.

Hi J.
I would've normally used 500g of white sugar.


For more flavour contribution from the sugar, Demerara would be good. Still, I’m still of the view that the invert sugar adds more complexity.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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