Corny without Co2

Bottles, Kegs, Casks, Polypins or however you serve your brew.

Corny without Co2

Postby brewington » Fri Jan 29, 2016 00:06

Anyone have any experience of using a corny and carbonating naturally (ie no gas connection) with sugar etc- would this work?
What would be my options for dispensing?

Join The Home Brew Festival http://www.thehomebrewfestival.co.uk
9th - 11th June 2017 in Market Bosworth.

Ask me about how you can get involved or check out the facebook page!

Some I made earlier... Oatmeal Stout, Speedy Extract IPA, Strawberry infused Rosé, My first AG IPA! ,AG IPA , Alcoholic Ginger Ale, Gluten Free IPA

If you put root beer in a square cup, do you get beer?
User avatar
brewington
Brewer
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 18:24
Location: East Mildands

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby GrahamT » Fri Jan 29, 2016 00:28

If you mean carbonating naturally, but still with the facility to connect CO2 (via the gas in post or at least an S30 valve on the lid; replacement lids can be bought on ebay with S30 valves attached) then that's certainly OK. Cornies need some pressure to guarantee a seal though. I've never actually tried it, but the issue is that gas escapes slowly before the point at which a seal is made.

Busy in the Summer House Brewery
GrahamT
Brewer
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:20

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby Springer » Fri Jan 29, 2016 13:29

I have tried it and it didn't work for me as Graham suggests. Might have a bit more chance with a good coat of vaselene but I still doubt it. The lids need a big hit of pressure to make them seal.
S

It's a dog life :D
User avatar
Springer
Brewer
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:18

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby rpt » Fri Jan 29, 2016 14:00

You can use Sankey kegs for this as they seal without needing pressure. However I don't bother. When I fill the keg I pressurise at about 5psi and then when I connect it to the hand pump (via a check valve) I set the pressure to about 2psi. Works well. For beer dispensed via a tap I set the pressure higher.

User avatar
rpt
Brewer
 
Posts: 1155
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 23:09
Location: Ilkley, West Yorkshire

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby GrowlingDog » Fri Jan 29, 2016 14:16

The other problem with natural conditioning in a keg as that it generates sediment. The kegs pickup tube is right at the bottom of the keg, just where that sediment has settled, so you may get a few pints of cloudy beer to start with.
User avatar
GrowlingDog
Admin
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 13:38
Location: Cycling around Essex

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby brewington » Fri Jan 29, 2016 22:23

:notworthy: Thanks guys, I think I am going to try PolyPins instead :drink:

Join The Home Brew Festival http://www.thehomebrewfestival.co.uk
9th - 11th June 2017 in Market Bosworth.

Ask me about how you can get involved or check out the facebook page!

Some I made earlier... Oatmeal Stout, Speedy Extract IPA, Strawberry infused Rosé, My first AG IPA! ,AG IPA , Alcoholic Ginger Ale, Gluten Free IPA

If you put root beer in a square cup, do you get beer?
User avatar
brewington
Brewer
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 18:24
Location: East Mildands

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby BarnsleyBrewer » Fri Jan 29, 2016 22:30

Buy a corny and find a gas supplier in your area and use bar size gas, or this idea.... I've seen brewers kegs with S30 valves on top after an easy modification

Me, myself I use 70/30 gas to get a creamy northern pint.

BB :drink:

"Brewing Fine Ales in Barnsley Since 1984"
- - - - - - - 30 years (1984 - 2014)- - - - - - -
Pints Brewed in 2017......... 416
Pints brewed in 2016.. 208
Pints brewed in 2015.. 624
Pints brewed in 2014.. 832
User avatar
BarnsleyBrewer
Brewer
 
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 14:12
Location: Wombwell, South Yorkshire

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby brewington » Fri Jan 29, 2016 22:34

Cant fault you there BB.

I just dont have the space for lots of kit, so gonna postpone going corny (so to speak) for now.

I will however be using a sparkler when dispensing... cue the riots... :twisted: lol

Join The Home Brew Festival http://www.thehomebrewfestival.co.uk
9th - 11th June 2017 in Market Bosworth.

Ask me about how you can get involved or check out the facebook page!

Some I made earlier... Oatmeal Stout, Speedy Extract IPA, Strawberry infused Rosé, My first AG IPA! ,AG IPA , Alcoholic Ginger Ale, Gluten Free IPA

If you put root beer in a square cup, do you get beer?
User avatar
brewington
Brewer
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 18:24
Location: East Mildands

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby BarnsleyBrewer » Fri Jan 29, 2016 22:52

Be a good buy, I cut my teeth on nylon barrels in the 80's where the tap always had a slight leak, corny kegs or sankies are the best route to go..... Trust BB..... :thumb:

"Brewing Fine Ales in Barnsley Since 1984"
- - - - - - - 30 years (1984 - 2014)- - - - - - -
Pints Brewed in 2017......... 416
Pints brewed in 2016.. 208
Pints brewed in 2015.. 624
Pints brewed in 2014.. 832
User avatar
BarnsleyBrewer
Brewer
 
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 14:12
Location: Wombwell, South Yorkshire

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby airymary » Sat Jan 30, 2016 14:15

brewington wrote:Anyone have any experience of using a corny and carbonating naturally (ie no gas connection) with sugar etc- would this work?
What would be my options for dispensing?

I filled 2 cornies yesterday - a used 19L, and a 23L used by me from new. Primed with 50g and 60g of priming sugar, lid seal smeared with vaseline, and just left to get on with it. Both pressurised to around 7psi this morning, solely from secondary fermentation. I know the conventional wisdom is that cornies must be gassed-up when first filled to seal the lid, but it's just not true.

I have a motley collection of new and used kegs, and they will all pressurise from secondary fermentation. You will need CO2 to serve the beer, tho'. The pressure will dissipate quickly once you start to pour beer. Just like a plastic barrel, really.
Cheers,

Chris

Multiple Vowels: Words with three 'E's are not uncommon, but one with 3 'U's is unusual...
User avatar
airymary
Brewer
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:10
Location: Walthamstow

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby airymary » Sat Jan 30, 2016 14:21

GrowlingDog wrote:The other problem with natural conditioning in a keg as that it generates sediment. The kegs pickup tube is right at the bottom of the keg, just where that sediment has settled, so you may get a few pints of cloudy beer to start with.

That's true, but cutting 1 or 2cm off the dip tube minimises the problem, without causing significant loss at the bottom of the keg.
Cheers,

Chris

Multiple Vowels: Words with three 'E's are not uncommon, but one with 3 'U's is unusual...
User avatar
airymary
Brewer
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:10
Location: Walthamstow

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby rpt » Sun Jan 31, 2016 17:19

brewington wrote::notworthy: Thanks guys, I think I am going to try PolyPins instead :drink:

Just make sure you drink all the beer within about 4 weeks after filling them, or it will be horribly oxidised. I gave up with polypins and moved to Sankey kegs for this reason.

User avatar
rpt
Brewer
 
Posts: 1155
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 23:09
Location: Ilkley, West Yorkshire

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby brewington » Sun Jan 31, 2016 20:48

rpt wrote:
brewington wrote::notworthy: Thanks guys, I think I am going to try PolyPins instead :drink:

Just make sure you drink all the beer within about 4 weeks after filling them, or it will be horribly oxidised. I gave up with polypins and moved to Sankey kegs for this reason.


Thanks, in all honesty I bottle mostly at home- the polypins / corny was more for the festival so I would imagine it would all be gone in 24 hrs lol (unless its terrible :vomit: )

Join The Home Brew Festival http://www.thehomebrewfestival.co.uk
9th - 11th June 2017 in Market Bosworth.

Ask me about how you can get involved or check out the facebook page!

Some I made earlier... Oatmeal Stout, Speedy Extract IPA, Strawberry infused Rosé, My first AG IPA! ,AG IPA , Alcoholic Ginger Ale, Gluten Free IPA

If you put root beer in a square cup, do you get beer?
User avatar
brewington
Brewer
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 18:24
Location: East Mildands

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby PhatFil » Mon Feb 01, 2016 20:08

I have an untested theory to seal a corny without CO2.....

If you can crash chill the brew in the fv it should retain most of the co2 thats disolved in the beer, then if drained/siphoned into a corny with minimal turbulance, most of that disolved co2 should? remain in suspension, IF enough co2 has been retained, you may be able to make the keg seal by suspending the full keg by the un-clamped handle and giving the keg a significant whack. the whack could shock any disolved co2 out of suspension and if enough it could seal the lid?????? Tho it may just result in a foamy leak or do bugger all ;)

again just a theory.. please feel free to shoot it down...

However its no solution for when you start to draw beer as the tiny headroom in a corny (0.5l or less) isnt going to service much more than a pint or 2 before running out and needing a gas top up..
User avatar
PhatFil
Brewer
 
Posts: 1044
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:52

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby Springer » Mon Feb 01, 2016 20:38

Apologies to Mary or Chris, I stand corrected. I tried to do it when my CO2 was suddenly unexpectedly empty :oops:
Don't know about your theory Phil. :hmm:
But if you need a cylinder to serve, apart from my blunder, why bother. :D
S

It's a dog life :D
User avatar
Springer
Brewer
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:18

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby Kev888 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:01

I had over 20 cornies at the height of over-enthusiasm, all used ones from Norm. A few would seal without injecting gas, but the vast majority would not do so reliably - irrespective of greasing the O-rings, using softer seals etc. The pressure from priming was just too gradual to push the lids tight and so would leak away without ever building up. It was pretty much necessary to seal the lids with gas, even if the beer was then carbonated by priming.

It seems like new cornies may work but, whilst I liked my cornies, trying to use older ones without gas was a world of aggro in my case at least. Even if you were to buy new with this specific intention then I have to think the sankeys would be better suited to it; by design, cornies are intended for high pressure and IMO they really benefit from using gas to realise their full potential.

I'm looking to simplify dispensing soon, too - I moved to a small flat where gas cylinders aren't allowed and there isn't space for anything extensive anyway. Without any gas and at the rate I drink, many methods result in the beer oxidising too quickly, without pressure it will also go flat eventually but I don't mind that too much. I could use sankeys with priming to carbonate, and small/discreet gas cylinder just whilst dispensing - to replace drawn-out beer and maybe also maintain the pressure equilibrium re carbonation. That would be my preference, but for practical reasons I also wonder about priming/maturing/storing in sankeys but then transferring to something like a polypin at the last minute, when the time comes to dispense, eliminating the need for gas at all.

Cheers
Kev

Kev
User avatar
Kev888
Brewer
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 15:32
Location: UK

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby cyclops » Tue Feb 02, 2016 20:24

Kev888 wrote:I had over 20 cornies at the height of over-enthusiasm, all used ones from Norm. A few would seal without injecting gas, but the vast majority would not do so reliably - irrespective of greasing the O-rings, using softer seals etc. The pressure from priming was just too gradual to push the lids tight and so would leak away without ever building up. It was pretty much necessary to seal the lids with gas, even if the beer was then carbonated by priming.

It seems like new cornies may work but, whilst I liked my cornies, trying to use older ones without gas was a world of aggro in my case at least. Even if you were to buy new with this specific intention then I have to think the sankeys would be better suited to it; by design, cornies are intended for high pressure and IMO they really benefit from using gas to realise their full potential.

I'm looking to simplify dispensing soon, too - I moved to a small flat where gas cylinders aren't allowed and there isn't space for anything extensive anyway. Without any gas and at the rate I drink, many methods result in the beer oxidising too quickly, without pressure it will also go flat eventually but I don't mind that too much. I could use sankeys with priming to carbonate, and small/discreet gas cylinder just whilst dispensing - to replace drawn-out beer and maybe also maintain the pressure equilibrium re carbonation. That would be my preference, but for practical reasons I also wonder about priming/maturing/storing in sankeys but then transferring to something like a polypin at the last minute, when the time comes to dispense, eliminating the need for gas at all.

Paint the cylinder red and says its a fire extinguisher :)

Cheers
Kev

Cheap Toys and Games at http://www.thetoydiscounter.com
User avatar
cyclops
Brewer
 
Posts: 629
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:07

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby Kev888 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 20:31

cyclops wrote:Paint the cylinder red and says its a fire extinguisher :)

heh, yes its an option... Could get some difficult questions when I went back to swap the empty for a full though... :scratch:

Last edited by Kev888 on Tue Feb 02, 2016 20:39, edited 1 time in total.

Kev
User avatar
Kev888
Brewer
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 15:32
Location: UK

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby Springer » Tue Feb 02, 2016 20:39

Well one on mine is destined for an attack with an angle grinder, to make an inner tube for my BIAT build. :)
S

It's a dog life :D
User avatar
Springer
Brewer
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:18

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby GrahamT » Tue Feb 02, 2016 22:35

Springer wrote:Well one on mine is destined for an attack with an angle grinder, to make an inner tube for my BIAT build. :)
S


What's the 'T' in BIAT? :scratch:

Busy in the Summer House Brewery
GrahamT
Brewer
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:20

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby Joe1002 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 23:30

GrahamT wrote:
Springer wrote:Well one on mine is destined for an attack with an angle grinder, to make an inner tube for my BIAT build. :)
S


What's the 'T' in BIAT? :scratch:

Tube I would imagine.

A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.
User avatar
Joe1002
Moderator
 
Posts: 2734
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:01
Location: Essex

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby PhatFil » Wed Feb 03, 2016 02:27

Springer wrote:Well one on mine is destined for an attack with an angle grinder, to make an inner tube for my BIAT build. :)
S


Have you considered buying a small sheet of stainless steel as used for splashbacks or worktop covers and using SS pot rivets to hold it in a cylinder shape?? a 1m length should wrap round on itself for a circa 30cm diameter tube and if you need it sealed plumbers flux and lead free solder or a sear of JB water-weld


As a corny is quite thin skinned the rough cut edge from an angle grinder would be a real sod to clean up and blunt off neatly, a nibbler would make a much neater job of it, ive used a hand nibbler on 0.9mm thick SS it was a pita but as you nibble a few mm at a time its a lot easier to keep on a straight line, Image
User avatar
PhatFil
Brewer
 
Posts: 1044
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:52

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby krazypara3165 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 08:24

Kev888 wrote:
cyclops wrote:Paint the cylinder red and says its a fire extinguisher :)

heh, yes its an option... Could get some difficult questions when I went back to swap the empty for a full though... :scratch:


Haha I actually use a fire extinguisher as my co2 source!

Kegged:
Simecoe APA (HBF Donation)

Bottled:
Galaxy Pale Ale, Woodfordes Wherry, Bella Brew Pale Ale, Strawberry and vanilla Pale Ale, Mixed fruits cider, Elderflower and grapefruit fizz.

Maturing:
Rhubarb Wine, WOW rose', Elderberry wine, Mixed berries wine, Elderflower and grapefruit wine, Elderberry wine.

Next Up:
German Pilsner, Guinness Clone, Chateau De Roi selection kit, Strawberry and lime cider.
User avatar
krazypara3165
The Weakest Drink
 
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 22:46
Location: Warrington, Cheshire

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby Springer » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:01

Yes T for tube.
I hear what you say Phil, don't like the idea of vandalising a cornie, but last time I looked on Ebay they were £35, now all gone. Will look into the stainless sheet thing, but had in mind to cut most of top and bottom out to leave a seating at right angles to the side, for filters to locate on. :)

S

It's a dog life :D
User avatar
Springer
Brewer
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:18

Re: Corny without Co2

Postby PeeBee » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:46

brewington wrote:Anyone have any experience of using a corny and carbonating naturally (ie no gas connection) with sugar etc- would this work?
What would be my options for dispensing?


Yes, I always carbonate my cornies naturally. But you've probably concluded from the replies that a corny wont seal with no pressure. So I always pressure the cornies to 1-2 PSI. I make sure the pressure never drops lower than that with extraneous CO2. And I lightly modify the "beer out" dip tube so it doesn't suck up the sediment. I serve with both a hand-pump and direct attached tap: With the tap if <1PSI the beer will barely dribble out (some put the corny on its side and modify the dip tube some more).

Is there a reason for NOT using CO2? (Apologies if its been answered, but I couldn't see an answer in the above).
User avatar
PeeBee
Brewer
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 16:57
Location: North Wales

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests