Co2 & N2 tanks

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Co2 & N2 tanks

Postby haggis51 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 15:01

Hi all,
First of all, I apologise if this post is a bit long but I need answers to a few questions. A few years ago I inquired about co2 suppliers in the Essex area but didn’t do anything about it. Decided to just stick with small co2 bottles but now that Hambleton Bard have stopped supplying S30 bottles and refills, I thought I had to get another supply of gas bottles, if I was to continue brewing. Made a few inquiries locally and in London, but most of the suppliers don't deal with Joe Public, or if they do they want either a large deposit or a rolling rental deal. Looking back at the replies to my previous post, a couple of you recommended Andover Patio Centre. Gave them a call and they still supply to us brewers, and at a very reasonable cost. It was even economical for me to drive the 200+ miles round trip from Brentwood, and pick up 2 bottles, 1 co2 and 1 70/30 n2/co2 mix (they didn’t have any 60/40 mix in stock) yesterday. At the price I paid, £24.54 inc vat for each, I was expecting 2 litre size but they are about double that. NO DEPOSIT AND NO RENTAL. I dropped into the HBS in Farnborough on the way and exchanged my 2 S30 bottles for refills while stocks last. Now the questions-
1 Does anyone know the size of the threads on the valves? The N2 valve has a female fitting and the co2 a male fitting. The guy at Andover thought they were 1/2” but they are not 1/2” BSP.
2 Need to fit a regulator and was hoping to get away with just one for both bottles. Appreciate I would need an adapter on 1 of the bottles. Reading on the net, am I right in saying that you can run co2 through a Nitrogen reg. but you cannot run Nitrogen through a co2 reg. due to the higher pressure of Nitrogen?
3 When I Googled co2/n reg adapters, there are a few out there, some adapt from co2 bottle to Nitrogen regulator , and some from Nitrogen bottle to co2 reg. If I am correct in my latter point in Q2, then you shouldn’t adapt from Nitrogen bottle to co2 regulator. I assume these adapters only adapt the fittings and nothing to do with pressure or am I wrong?
4 What size and type of tubing do I require from the reg to a manifold or direct to a Corny Keg?
5 Do you recommend John Guest fittings on all ends? If so, again what size?
OK I think that will do for now and look forward to any replies or feedback.
Cheers,
STUART
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Re: Co2 & N2 tanks

Postby Aleman » Thu Jan 24, 2019 08:57

No Idea on Thread Size ... I suspect CO2 is 3/4BSP or something close ... You want to use something close at pressures of 800PSI??? As for the N2/Mixed gas that is a Female fitting and I suspect it's around 3/4 POL ... in this case it's even worse, you don't want something close as the internal pressure is close to 2000PSI. There is a good reason why the different threads, you don't want someone fitting a CO2 reg (rated to 800psi) on a Mixed Gas cylinder ... can you say destroyed.

OK Sou you require 2 primary regs that reduce from the cylinder internal pressure down to something usable for us Brewers, say a max of 60psi, and then a 'number' of 'Secondary' stage regulators that allow you to set different pressures on your barrels.

Yes, I went with JG fittings all the way through my system, and the problem there is that until you have your regs you don't know what fittings you require, unless they come with them. Most Pub Gas is run with 3/8" tubing, but for the small gas supply we require you can get away with 3/16 from the secondaries. Indeed I actually convert down from 3/8 to 3/16 for my primary reg to go into my beer fridge where my secondary board is fitted, and then 3/16 from the secondaries to the kegs.

Hope this helps, or gives you some ideas

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Re: Co2 & N2 tanks

Postby haggis51 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 09:05

Hi Aleman,
Thanks for your informative answer. Haven’t come across POL relating to thread sizes before, what does that stand for?
Cheers
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Re: Co2 & N2 tanks

Postby Aleman » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:25

It's not a thread size as such, but a type of fitting designed to prevent gas leakage, most commonly seen on Propane Cylinders

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
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Re: Co2 & N2 tanks

Postby PeeBee » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:07

The thread has the designation "DIN477 / JIS m22-14 / BS 341 No. 8 / W21.8-14 / .860" x 1/14" (covers UK, Europe and Asia). A right gob-full! It's a list of compatible threads of which you see "W21.8-14" most often.

Don't think this knowledge will help you any though (except it will help you to dismiss some dodgy ideas!). Take "W21.8-14": That's "W" for "Whitworth" (a thread profile developed in the 19th century), 21.8 is the diameter in millimetres, and 14 is the number of threads per inch!

I've actually used 5/8" BSP (parallel female) with lots of PTFE tape and only at 75PSI - it is way too loose to handle CO2 cylinder pressure (about 860PSI). That's an example of a "dodgy idea" BTW!
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Re: Co2 & N2 tanks

Postby haggis51 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 09:23

PeeBee wrote:The thread has the designation "DIN477 / JIS m22-14 / BS 341 No. 8 / W21.8-14 / .860" x 1/14" (covers UK, Europe and Asia). A right gob-full! It's a list of compatible threads of which you see "W21.8-14" most often.

Don't think this knowledge will help you any though (except it will help you to dismiss some dodgy ideas!). Take "W21.8-14": That's "W" for "Whitworth" (a thread profile developed in the 19th century), 21.8 is the diameter in millimetres, and 14 is the number of threads per inch!

I've actually used 5/8" BSP (parallel female) with lots of PTFE tape and only at 75PSI - it is way too loose to handle CO2 cylinder pressure (about 860PSI). That's an example of a "dodgy idea" BTW!

Thanks Peebee,
I have come across BS 341 No. 8 / W21.8-14 / .860" x 1/14" before in my search for an answer. I will pop down to my local BOC supplier today and see if they have anything with this size I can try on my bottles.
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Re: Co2 & N2 tanks

Postby PeeBee » Sat Jan 26, 2019 13:11

BTW: BS 341 No. 8 is worth looking up for the sake of "general knowledge". Apart from "No. 8" it describes stuff about "POL", "5/8" BSP", …

https://www.ftipv.com/bs341-british-sta ... onnectors/ ("POL" is No. 3 and No. 4, internal - "INT" or female - cylinder connections).
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Re: Co2 & N2 tanks

Postby haggis51 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:14

PeeBee wrote:BTW: BS 341 No. 8 is worth looking up for the sake of "general knowledge". Apart from "No. 8" it describes stuff about "POL", "5/8" BSP", …

https://www.ftipv.com/bs341-british-sta ... onnectors/ ("POL" is No. 3 and No. 4, internal - "INT" or female - cylinder connections).

Been in touch with Air Liquide this morning and after having to call me back, as they didn't know off hand the answer, they say their valve size is 3/4" bsp. This seems to correspond to BS 341 No. 8 / W21.8-14. The measurement across the threads of the male valve fitting is about 22mm, i.e. w21.8mm
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