[BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

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[BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby MPLMPL » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:36

Inspired by rlemkin's recent posts, I thought I'd have a go at a Berliner Weisse. The concept of sour beers was an anathema to me a year or two ago, until I tried Buxton's Far Skyline and Red Raspberry Rye. Now I can't get enough of Berliner Weisse and Gose, really enjoying some To Ol versions from a recent order.
I thought that sours were something that I wouldn't really be able to brew at home until reading of probiotic pills. Ordered some Swanson's Lactobacillus Plantarum tablets from rlemkin's source (subsequently, I now get emails trying to sell me stuff for IBS...).
Was initially going for a 5L trial batch, but went for 11L with the intention of splitting the batch. Substituted wheat malt for pale rye, as it is all I had in.
900 g pilsner
500 g pale rye
no hops
Water treated with half a campden tablet. Alkalinity dropped to ~15 using 2M HCl. Added a bit of gypsum to get SO42-:Cl- to 1:1, Ca2+ at ~ 100 ppm.
Mashed at 65C (3 hours by the time I got back to it) and gave a quick 15 min boil, just in case.
11L of 1.031 into the fv.
A pinch and twist of the capsules is all that it needed to open them. Sprinkled the contents of 6 of them into fv and a few hours later a packet of rehydrated US-05.
A very quick and easy brewday, heating and cooling much quicker on smaller volume, short boil etc.
Fermenting away by the next morning.
1 day pH ~4.0 using pH strips.
3 days pH between 3.0 and 3.5 but closer to 3.0 colouring on strips.
It's been a week, so I'll check gravity and souring tonight.
What next?
I'm planning on transferring 4L or so into a demi-john containing some fruit. In the freezer I have blackcurrants, redcurrants, whitecurrants and raspberries from last years crop. I'm tempted by the blackcurrants as I have a lot to use up, but expect to to be very sour with these; however, recently really enjoyed a Dugges Blackcurrant Nordic Sour.
The rest will be dry-hopped with the remnants of packs of amarillo (20g) and citra (40g) - thinking more Siren Calypso style.
I have a selection of thicker Belgian bottles, so will go big on the carbonation when the time comes.

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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby MPLMPL » Wed Apr 26, 2017 20:19

8 days in and down to 1.004, giving ~ 3.5% which is Bob on what I intended. Trial jar sample tastes great, could drink straight from fv. Just sour enough, very lemony with rye coming through. pH looks good.
Think I'll go for blackcurrants for 4L and dry hop the rest. I'm very happy with this, so easy.
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Image

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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby rlemkin » Wed Apr 26, 2017 21:25

Looks good and I'm glad everything went so smoothly! I'm not sure I've had a sour beer with that much rye in it before.

Blackcurrants definitely sounds nice, how many are you thinking of putting in the demijohn? Blackcurrants can be quite acidic on their own can't they?

Dry hops go a long way in sours, so you likely won't need 60g for 7L, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't!
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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby MPLMPL » Wed Apr 26, 2017 22:16

rlemkin wrote:Blackcurrants definitely sounds nice, how many are you thinking of putting in the demijohn? Blackcurrants can be quite acidic on their own can't they?

Dry hops go a long way in sours, so you likely won't need 60g for 7L, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't!


Still to decide how many blackcurrants. A couple of years ago when making Aleman's Effin Oatmeal Stout, I took off a gallon and added 500 g blackcurrants and some liquorice. They were pretty sharp and it took a good year to come together. Still have a few bottles left and it's now great. I may go cautious and try 200-250g. Should still be nice and mouth puckering.

I'm regretting not brewing a couple more litres, as the trial jar was so nice, that I fancy bottling some unadorned.

As for dry hops, I was thinking, go big or go home. Having said that, I think the citra will probably dominate in that ratio, so I may just go with 10g citra, 20g Amarillo. I hadn't really considered that you need less for sours. What sort of quantities do you use?

The troubles of our proud and angry dust
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Bear them we can, and if we can we must.
Shoulder the sky, my lad, and drink your ale.
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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby rlemkin » Wed Apr 26, 2017 23:04

MPLMPL wrote:
rlemkin wrote:Blackcurrants definitely sounds nice, how many are you thinking of putting in the demijohn? Blackcurrants can be quite acidic on their own can't they?

Dry hops go a long way in sours, so you likely won't need 60g for 7L, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't!


Still to decide how many blackcurrants. A couple of years ago when making Aleman's Effin Oatmeal Stout, I took off a gallon and added 500 g blackcurrants and some liquorice. They were pretty sharp and it took a good year to come together. Still have a few bottles left and it's now great. I may go cautious and try 200-250g. Should still be nice and mouth puckering.

I'm regretting not brewing a couple more litres, as the trial jar was so nice, that I fancy bottling some unadorned.

As for dry hops, I was thinking, go big or go home. Having said that, I think the citra will probably dominate in that ratio, so I may just go with 10g citra, 20g Amarillo. I hadn't really considered that you need less for sours. What sort of quantities do you use?



Anywhere between one and six grams a litre. Tastiest result so far was 1g/l of Simcoe in a tart saison, but that may have been a fluke! With Berliners I've largely not dry hopped them, although that might be just for convenience sake..
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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby xCamel xSlayer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 09:49

So there's literally no boil at all other than that quick 15 mins? Was that necessary or just a precautionary move as it was your first go?

I'm determined to have a go soon
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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby MPLMPL » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:22

xCamel xSlayer wrote:So there's literally no boil at all other than that quick 15 mins? Was that necessary or just a precautionary move as it was your first go?

I'm determined to have a go soon


I'm sure our resident expert rlemkin is best to advise, but I could probably have gone without the 15 min boil, there were no hops added. It just felt wrong not to boil! I had left the mash about three hours before getting back to it, can't remember what the temp had fallen to (58/59? small ish volume in 32L pan, not as well wrapped up as usual), I was probably just being overly cautious. Definitely worth a 5-10L trial. The L. Plantarum tablets were £3.85 including delivery for a bottle of 30. I chucked in a whole packet of US-05 as I couldn't be arsed weighing out a smaller quantity. Cheap and quick to make.

The troubles of our proud and angry dust
Are from eternity, and shall not fail.
Bear them we can, and if we can we must.
Shoulder the sky, my lad, and drink your ale.
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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby rlemkin » Thu Apr 27, 2017 22:41

MPLMPL wrote:
xCamel xSlayer wrote:So there's literally no boil at all other than that quick 15 mins? Was that necessary or just a precautionary move as it was your first go?

I'm determined to have a go soon


I'm sure our resident expert rlemkin is best to advise, but I could probably have gone without the 15 min boil, there were no hops added. It just felt wrong not to boil! I had left the mash about three hours before getting back to it, can't remember what the temp had fallen to (58/59? small ish volume in 32L pan, not as well wrapped up as usual), I was probably just being overly cautious. Definitely worth a 5-10L trial. The L. Plantarum tablets were £3.85 including delivery for a bottle of 30. I chucked in a whole packet of US-05 as I couldn't be arsed weighing out a smaller quantity. Cheap and quick to make.


http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Dimethyl_Sulfide#Numerical_Modeling_Using_Updated_DMS_Volatility_Data < If you scroll down you'll see some estimations of DMS levels..

Here's the quote..

In summary, the new model predicts that the 15 minute pasteurization rest produces the least amount of DMS (~5 µg/L), while the 15 minute boil produces the most DMS (~35 µg/L). Note that 35 µg/L of DMS is still below the recommended 100 µg/L of DMS that should be allowed to go into the fermenter [21].


In essence, keep the lid off the pot and you can do what you like.. It helps that most British pale malts are significantly lower in DMS precursors than real Pilsner too. I've had a couple of people pick up DMS in my 15 min. boil versions, but I think it's still below the threshold for most people.
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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby MPLMPL » Sat May 13, 2017 17:07

Bottled some of this today. Dry hopped ~6L with 18 g amarillo and 18 g citra. FG 1.004, so about 3.5%. Went for just over 3 vols CO2. Trial jar sample tasted good.

The remaining 4.5L is in a demijohn with 250g of simmered and strained blackcurrants. Very pink.Image

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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby Bad 'Ed » Tue May 16, 2017 08:14

How careful do you have to be with the Lactobacillus bug? I would have a go at this because I love Berliner Weisse, but I have a nagging thought in the back of my mind that I won't be able to clean off the lactobacillus and it will find its way into my subsequent brews.

Never enough time....
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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby MPLMPL » Tue May 16, 2017 12:18

Bad 'Ed wrote:How careful do you have to be with the Lactobacillus bug? I would have a go at this because I love Berliner Weisse, but I have a nagging thought in the back of my mind that I won't be able to clean off the lactobacillus and it will find its way into my subsequent brews.

I don't know, I also had these concerns. I decided to use a dedicated fv, siphon tube, bottle wand etc. I had tubing and wand spare, and a couple of 12-15L foodgrade 'tubs' as fv and bottling bucket (one used to house growmore fertiliser, the other quick drying cement).
The lactobacillus was added direct to the fv, so none of my normal kit has been in contact.


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Shoulder the sky, my lad, and drink your ale.
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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby MPLMPL » Sun May 28, 2017 18:41

Image
First taste of this. Absolute belter, tropical hop flavour coming through, nicely sour, a bit of rye. Carbonation spot on, surprisingly clear (lots of condensation on glass) the slightest of hazes, head lasts. Definitely brewing this again.

The troubles of our proud and angry dust
Are from eternity, and shall not fail.
Bear them we can, and if we can we must.
Shoulder the sky, my lad, and drink your ale.
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Re: [BIAB] AG#20 Rye Berliner Weisse

Postby MPLMPL » Wed Jun 21, 2017 20:08

This is from the gallon with blackcurrants added. Great stuff, tart with a great fruity flavour. I'm officially a Berliner Weisse convert.Image
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