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Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 17:26
by rlemkin
Onto my second hoppy sour after my first attempt http://www.forum.craftbrewing.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=10906.

I was quite pleased with the first attempt, it came out quite a complex, dry sour with an interesting hop character. It was however quite a long turn around, no-boil, 100% Brett and with a lighter hop flavour than I'd like.

Going more traditional with a kettle-esque sour (I talked a fair bit about ways to hop sour beers in the linked post above) and full boil before a heavy whirlpool addition. The previous beer is more interesting than this, but simple, sour & hoppy is what I'm after today. Recipe is for Mosaic and Simcoe, but I am all out.

The brewery I got the recipe fruits various versions of this and I'll decide if I want to closer to bottling. They have used Pineapple, Raspberry and Oranges.

Recipe adapted from the folks of Crooked Run Brewing - https://crookedrunbrewing.wordpress.com/2016/07/30/sour-ipa/.

Today is Brewday 1. Mash, Boil, Pitch Lactobacillus Plantarum and wait. Day 2 will involve a boil and the hops once the wort has soured to ~3.5

Empress Sour - Acid Session 2

Original Gravity (OG): 1.060 (°P): 14.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (°P): 3.6
Alcohol (ABV): 6.05 %
Colour (SRM): 4.1 (EBC): 8.1
Bitterness (IBU): 19.8 (Average)

68% Pilsner
26% Wheat Malt
6% Flaked Wheat

1.8 g/L Kohatu(12% Alpha) @ 4 Minutes (Boil)
1.9 g/L Centennial(12.2% Alpha) @ 4 Minutes (Boil)
2.9 g/L Kohatu(12% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)
2.9 g/L Centennial(12.2% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)


Single step Infusion at 69°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 18°C with English Ale Yeast

Recipe Generated with BrewMate

Plantarum Pills
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Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 06:46
by doomy86
Great recipe, i never used kohatu hops yet. Where do you buy the plantarum pills for souring?

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:07
by rlemkin
doomy86 wrote:Great recipe, i never used kohatu hops yet. Where do you buy the plantarum pills for souring?


I buy them here - https://www.healthmonthly.co.uk/swanson_probiotics_lplantarum_30_vegetarian_capsules - They're normally between £3-5 inc. delivery. £3.85 today it would seem!

My first time using Kohatu too. Reading up now and it sounds lovely. I might increase the ratio vs the Centennial or skip it entirely.

I don't like souring like this. I want to check the pH, but I'm paranoid about infection.

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 19:29
by rlemkin
pH down to 3.55 and no infection. I guess I best get this boiling!

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 13:53
by tommidolcetto
Hi rlemkin
What do you do with the Lactobacillus Plantarum tabs before pitching? And how many? I see in your Berliner Weisse you used 2 but in above lots?

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 14:46
by rlemkin
tommidolcetto wrote:Hi rlemkin
What do you do with the Lactobacillus Plantarum tabs before pitching? And how many? I see in your Berliner Weisse you used 2 but in above lots?


I normally mush them in some lukewarm water in a sterilised jug. The reason there are so many tablets in here is that my hand slipped.. normally I use 2-3 for 4.5L. Others recommend a starter, and I probably would too if i brewed full batches.

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 22:56
by rlemkin
Need to get this one bottled soon. I ended up using Kohatu exclusively to try and cut down on open packets of hops. It really accentuates the lemony tartness so far. Quite limey and floral, no so much 'tropical fruit'

I then added the zest of one orange per gallon. It's basically hoppy orange juice at the moment..

A wee blog post going through the brew day in more detail - https://wildbeeerblog.wordpress.com/201 ... hoppy-ale/

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Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 21:59
by rlemkin
Bottled today. Taste and aroma are predominantly lime and orange. Pretty fantastic at this stage. Will be interesting to see how the fruit flavour changes with time and if the oil from the orange zest limits head retention even further. It remains hoppy orange juice...

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 19:38
by rlemkin
Interestingly this has the best head retention of any sour beer I've brewed. All dem hops.

Happy to send a bottle of this out to a few folk in exchange for feedback, if anyone is interested?

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 21:30
by rlemkin
Thanks for the feedback on this beer :). Useful notes and I'm going to try to work this into the next iteration of the beer.

This also came in second today on it's table (Fruit, Spice & Seasonal) at the Welsh homebrew comp today which is nice! They deserve a shout out, it's a great and ridiculously efficient competition.

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 22:32
by rlemkin
Version two is souring as I type. Unfortunately it's rattled down to a pH of 3.25. So there goes my idea to make it less acidic, oh well!

I'll post the full recipe later if anyone is intersted. Gist of it is a bit of Caramalt, higher mash temp and lots of US hops. Slightly less Orange.

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 23:52
by HTH1975
rlemkin wrote:Version two is souring as I type. Unfortunately it's rattled down to a pH of 3.25. So there goes my idea to make it less acidic, oh well!

I'll post the full recipe later if anyone is intersted. Gist of it is a bit of Caramalt, higher mash temp and lots of US hops. Slightly less Orange.


These types of beers are a mystery to me - would love to try one if there's a bottle going spare.

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 18:05
by rlemkin
HTH1975 wrote:
rlemkin wrote:Version two is souring as I type. Unfortunately it's rattled down to a pH of 3.25. So there goes my idea to make it less acidic, oh well!

I'll post the full recipe later if anyone is intersted. Gist of it is a bit of Caramalt, higher mash temp and lots of US hops. Slightly less Orange.


These types of beers are a mystery to me - would love to try one if there's a bottle going spare.


Aye of course. I've drunk through v1, but I'll be boiling this up tonight and should be ready a few weeks after. Will keep one aside :)

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 20:49
by HTH1975
rlemkin wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:
rlemkin wrote:Version two is souring as I type. Unfortunately it's rattled down to a pH of 3.25. So there goes my idea to make it less acidic, oh well!

I'll post the full recipe later if anyone is intersted. Gist of it is a bit of Caramalt, higher mash temp and lots of US hops. Slightly less Orange.


These types of beers are a mystery to me - would love to try one if there's a bottle going spare.


Aye of course. I've drunk through v1, but I'll be boiling this up tonight and should be ready a few weeks after. Will keep one aside :)


Spot on - gimme a shout when it's ready and we can do a swap.

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 15:48
by rlemkin
HTH1975 wrote:
rlemkin wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:
rlemkin wrote:Version two is souring as I type. Unfortunately it's rattled down to a pH of 3.25. So there goes my idea to make it less acidic, oh well!

I'll post the full recipe later if anyone is intersted. Gist of it is a bit of Caramalt, higher mash temp and lots of US hops. Slightly less Orange.


These types of beers are a mystery to me - would love to try one if there's a bottle going spare.


Aye of course. I've drunk through v1, but I'll be boiling this up tonight and should be ready a few weeks after. Will keep one aside :)


Spot on - gimme a shout when it's ready and we can do a swap.


:thumb:
I split the batch between US-05 and London ESB yeast. I decided to try some ESB yeast as this beer is going to come out pretty damn sour and the extra sugars could be beneficial.

First sample last night as fermentation slowed down. Tasting very good, albeit a tad too sour, but I'm not sure what I can do about that now..

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 19:56
by HTH1975
Does the sourness soften with age?

You could age it with oak chips - I found that they definitely have a softening quality that rounded out the beers I've tried this with.

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 19:57
by HTH1975
Or, maybe blend it with a non-soured beer to knock it back a little. Something like a straight up pale ale with minimal bittering would do the trick.

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 23:13
by rlemkin
HTH1975 wrote:Does the sourness soften with age?

You could age it with oak chips - I found that they definitely have a softening quality that rounded out the beers I've tried this with.



Not so much in a kettle sour as the acid profile is largely locked in, oak could be an idea. Looking at the beers I've got in demijohns.. they've all got brettanomyces in them and this beer doesn't. So that's them out. I could add lactose perhaps, but I'm not a fan.

I think they will still be fine, but I'll go easy on the dry hop and orange. I think the final pH will be around 3.2 which is right on the edge of what I enjoy. Interestingly a ph of 3.2 vs 3.5 (first batch) results in almost twice as much acid!

Re: Acid Session 2

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 23:27
by rlemkin
HTH1975 wrote:
rlemkin wrote:
HTH1975 wrote:
rlemkin wrote:Version two is souring as I type. Unfortunately it's rattled down to a pH of 3.25. So there goes my idea to make it less acidic, oh well!

I'll post the full recipe later if anyone is intersted. Gist of it is a bit of Caramalt, higher mash temp and lots of US hops. Slightly less Orange.


These types of beers are a mystery to me - would love to try one if there's a bottle going spare.


Aye of course. I've drunk through v1, but I'll be boiling this up tonight and should be ready a few weeks after. Will keep one aside :)


Spot on - gimme a shout when it's ready and we can do a swap.


Ready if you fancy some.