weird off flavour, possibly water?

While Beer is 90-97% water, it is a very tricky subject.

Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby HTH1975 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 19:42

I measured pH at 2.2 with star-san mixed up at the suggested dilution on the bottle.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby HTH1975 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 00:53

Would pitching too warm cause sour off flavours? I'm just thinking that on my first brew I pitched sat around 26C as the kit said to pitch anywhere under 29C.

On my second brew I pitched closer to the target fermentation temperature of 18C, but it ended up between 18-20C during the first few days with the extra heat from fermentation.

Could this be the answer?

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby graysalchemy » Mon Feb 01, 2016 09:29

Fermenting to warm would produce hot solvent flavours. If you only fermented one at that and not the others then that wouldn't be a consistent through each brews.

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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby HTH1975 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 19:37

GrahamT wrote:
Make up Star San with dead cheap Tesco Ashbeck water (RO water if you have a cheap source). Test pH is 3.5 or below. When it goes cloudy, chuck it (because it is forming soap, which we don't want in our beer. As long as it's pH 3.5 or lower, it will sanitise.)



This sounds interesting. Both the oxy cleaner and also the star-san both went cloudy. Could this have formed soap and caused an off flavour?

I'll certainly try using Ashbeck for sanitising next time. Weird thing is that my pH with the star-san was 2.2, but still cloudy.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby graysalchemy » Mon Feb 01, 2016 20:40

I think you are clutching at straws mate, acidic beer = infection.

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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby GrahamT » Mon Feb 01, 2016 20:53

HTH1975 wrote:Weird thing is that my pH with the star-san was 2.2, but still cloudy.


The stronger the acid is made up, the more pronounced and sooner any reaction to particular solids in the water used will be. If you were to use distilled water, you could probably go super strong and have no clouding, not that you should be. Of course, as a no rinse sanitiser you want to be keeping the ppms of constituents of the star San in line with advice on th bottle.

Ashbeck is low in the solids that cause the soapification* ,but not totally freeof them.

*I made that word up, but it is essentially what happens!

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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby HTH1975 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 09:40

Thanks for the input guys. I've got one taker on my offer to try one of my beers, anyone else is welcome to try too, just so we can nail the problem.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby Springer » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:34

Have another read through all the input H, no need for anyone to try your beer. :D
Aleman nailed it first reply, backed up by Grays, with lots of other advice on how to prevent it. :)
I think I said making good beer in not hard you just need to follow some "simple" rules. Get some nice beer made and then worry about perfecting your process before getting to complicated. ;)
Looking forward to hearing the final verdict on brews 2 and 3. :D
S

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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby HTH1975 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 18:55

:hat: Cheers all

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby HTH1975 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 22:15

Coming back to this, I bottled my #2 brew today and had a taste before priming - I'd say it's come a long way in only a week, tastes pretty decent actually, strong too (despite not hitting the correct OG by around 15 points). Once this conditions for the stipulated 4-week minimum, I dare say it will be a decent sup.

My stout has also come along nicely and smells amazing (really looking forward to that one).

I don't know if I was just jumping the gun - this is still very new to me and I'm not sure what to expect at each stage.

Many thanks to everyone who pitched in.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby Springer » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:33

Glad to hear the good news. :D
I wonder what a bottle of vintage Dom Perigon would taste like at one week old :hmm:
S
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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby HTH1975 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:13

I went for a higher carbonation level in the wheat beer - one of my books suggested 13g/litre, but I'm not a fan of overly carbonated beers (I always feel that the majority are way too fizzy). I therefore went with 10g/litre.

I'll be bottling the stout next weekend, and I'm thinking that will be best with much lower carbonation - like 3g/litre maybe.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby NellyD » Tue Feb 09, 2016 19:20

You may have solved the problem you were detailing in your original post in which case ignore this response.

I agree with the guys saying it sounds like infection.

I went through a spell of having a few brew infections and resolved the problem by using a wort chiller. I had previously left the wort to cool to temperature naturally thus allowing airborne bacteria to infect the beer.

Introducing the chiller ensured a quick reduction in temperature and minimised the risk of infection. So I don't know if you are using any chiller but if not this might help.

Finally I would reiterate springer's advice. Try and brew one thing at a time until you master it. Change only one thing at a time so that you can determine the effect. You will,learn lots each time and you can then use this when trying different recipes.

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Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby HTH1975 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 19:52

Hi NellyD, I am indeed using a wort chiller - its a DIY effort, but it works a treat cooling 24 litres of wort down to pitching temperature in around 10 minutes.

2016: 330L brewed (72 gallons, over 8 firkins)
2017: 105L brewed (need to update this figure)
Drinking: Landlord clone
Conditioning: ciders from 2016, hedgerow barrolo, 1914 Courage RIS (10%).
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HTH1975
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Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 19:16
Location: Thirsk, North Yorkshire

Re: weird off flavour, possibly water?

Postby NellyD » Tue Feb 09, 2016 20:11

It'll not be that then.

"Brewing is the combination of technical ability with art"
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