Water Treatment

Ok - i wonder if you could taste lactic if your alkalinity was >220 (ie like mine)

I think for a pilsner you'd need to dilute with distilled water ( or RO water) or just use good bottled water but you'd probably need to add minerals to get it right . I too dilute for a pilsner ( i should of mentioned that earlier )

In terms of dilution of sulphuric acid for alkalinity reduction, you mean the dilution is necessary via the mash water?

Interesting info on the Murphys sulphuric acid %. I was going to test the alkalinity reduction strength using 5 litres of my tap water based on the 25% stated strength and Brunwater calcs.

Thanks Aleman. Just for clarification - I meant dilution in terms of Murphy's sulphuric - not the 95% bomb making stuff. Sorry I should have been more specific.

After having a read of this I do understand a little better here is a link to our local water supplier you will notice on the bottom right of the page they offer a calculator to convert the hardness into calcium carbonate

http://www.yorkshirewater.com/extra-ser ... x?loc=HU13 0BJ&lat=53.7187987&lng=-0.4394389000000274

Ill get an alkalinity testing kit after the holidays
Forgot to say I have been talking via twitter to a brewery in hull and did ask them how they treated their water and they said the only thing they use is ams/crs that's it

Take a look on JBK about the issues with Murphy's . . Then ask if you can trust thier recommendations. I did some work for a brewery in the summer that were following murphy's guidance and were wondering why the pH of the mash liquor was falling to 3. . . Turns out that they should have been using 550ml of ams not the 1200 recommended! !! Then you have to decide if what a brewer in your region is doing is appropriate for your water . . .They could well have a different supply to you.

yes your right ive been doing a lot of reading this morning. Ill be testing for alkalinity every brew from now on and just use the figures on jims calc.
Thanks for the advice

There is also Bru n water that you can enter your Murphy results in.

I haven't fully understood it yet myself yet, need to sit down with it and work it out.

What brewery are you in touch with Mark?

I tried that bru n water understood so much but gave up in the end. Its atom beers in Sutton Hull

A quick question. What do I put in the Mash, and what goes into the boil? As my water is very soft, I will be wanting to achieve 50-100ppm of Calcium in the mash as a general rule to help lower the pH for a Bitter (read in a previous post). Do I add enough calcium into the mash to achieve the correct ion concentration, and then do I also calculate how much gypsum/calcium chloride to put into the boil and split it like that?

Alkalinity as Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) =11.98 mg/L
Total Hardness as CaCO3/Calcium Carbonate = 40.75 mg/L
Sulphate = 26.3 mg/L
Chloride = 13.6 mg/L
Calcium = 16.3ppm

With my old 3V plant I would reduce the alkalinity (if needed, mine is similar to yours, but goes higher sometimes) to about 25, then treat the mash liquor to 100-125mg/l . . .I would then add an additional 50-75mg/L to the boil keeping the sulphate to chloride ratios the same as the mash.

I've had my water analysis done by Phoenix Analytical and the alkalinity from that has matched what I've found from the Salifert kit - 92mg/L. This is significantly higher than last time I tested but that was in the summer, so I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I think I have a decent handle on lowering alkalinity, adding calcium etc. However, Aleman mentions increasing alkalinity for dark beers up to around 125ppm using Sodium Bicarbonate. At what rate does Sodium Bicarbonate contribute to Alkalinity? Presumably it is contributing Carbonates/Bicarbonates and the alkalinity is a function of this?

Sodium bicarbonate will increase alkalinity with insignificant flavour influence in your particular case. I'm not convinced you need to increase alkalinity above 92mmg/l as CaCO3 for all dark beers. Required only for mash liquor, you might instead consider a modest increase in its quantity above the standard 2.5 to 3 litres per kg of grain or witholding some of any calcium salt additions until after the mash to have the desired effect of raising pH.

Adding 1g of sodium bicarbonate per litre of liquor will produce alkalinity equivalent to almost 600mg/l if measured as calcium carbonate, so little more than a twentieth of a gm per litre would increase alkalinity from 92 to 125mg/l as CaCO3.

Great thread, forgot all about this what Aleman did...