X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

While Beer is 90-97% water, it is a very tricky subject.

X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 07:01

Hi

I'm trying to put together a very simple calculator where a use puts in their CACO3 value. How much water they're treating, and what they want their CACO3 to be after adding the CRS.

Does anyone know how to calculate how many mls of CRS is needed in such a situation?


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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby Aleman » Fri May 06, 2016 07:06

Just make sure that you emphasise that the CaCO3 value required is alkalinity and not Hardness as alkalinity!!!

1ml of CRS will remove 183mg of alkalinity according to murphy's . . . Although they also state 194 on occasion.

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 07:07

I will do aleman!

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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 07:07

That's for 1 litre I assume?

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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby Aleman » Fri May 06, 2016 08:48

NickW wrote:That's for 1 litre I assume?

No, if you have 10L with an alkalinity of 18.3 and you add a ml of CRS the resulting alkalinity when everything has settled will be zero.

Alkalinity Times Volume to be treated Divided by 183 = amount of CRS to add in millilitres.

Where alkalinity is in mg/l as CaC03 NOT as HCO3- ;)

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 08:51

Aleman wrote:
That's for 1 litre I assume?

Alkalinity Times Volume to be treated Divided by 183 = amount of CRS to add in millilitres.


That is what I needed! So simple. Thanks aleman

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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 09:13

Me again...!

I'm following this advice from brupaks...

Image

Brupaks calculation comes out at 26ml of CRS.

When I do as you suggested...

(Current alkalinity * Total Water) / 183 = CRS Addition

Using the figures on that page...

(195 * 30) / 183

I get 32ml of CRS.

Am I missing something silly here??

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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 09:19

Ignore me!! I was using current alkalinity rather than the amount of alkalinity that needed to be taken away!

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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 10:36

Here it is... http://185.116.213.24/~demotester/brewing/crs/

Please let me know if this (remember is very basic advice for people who don't treat water) advice is in order?

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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby Aleman » Fri May 06, 2016 10:52

Looks cool . . . Nice and simple . . . Love the idea of using the meq value rather than after multiplying it by 50 and entering it CaCO3.

Nice touch on the adding calcium with a low meq value as well . . . but the calcium should be added to the mash, not the kettle, if you are going to add it anywhere.

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 10:57

Thanks for the positibe feedback! Im trying to make it as simpe as possible. Feel free to rip the code out and use it if you like.

I was toying between the mash and kettle. I was thinking that if the calcium was added to the mash it would bring the ph down further which may not be desirable? What are your thoughts?

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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby Aleman » Fri May 06, 2016 11:06

NickW wrote:Feel free to rip the code out and use it if you like.

Thanks but my spreadsheet does it from the syringe value :whistle: :twisted:

NickW wrote:I was toying between the mash and kettle. I was thinking that if the calcium was added to the mash it would bring the ph down further which may not be desirable? What are your thoughts?

It won't really affect it all that much 0.1 to 0.2 units if that, as long as you are aiming for sensible levels of alkalinity after treatment then 0.1 or 0.2 units won;t take it outside the 5.3 to 5.8 'ideal' range. Calcium is important in the mash as it helps prevent heat damage to the amylases. One experiment I am aware of is looking at how much calcium is retained in the mash, and what they are finding is that somewhere close to 54-58% of added calcium is retained in the mash, so splitting between the mash and boil may well be desirable in order to have enough left after the boil for the fermentation process.

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 11:08

Cheers aleman!! Thanks for your guidance. I will change the wording

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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 13:41

I'm receiving some mixed messages on Facebook. Someone has said it's not alkalinity difference * volume /183. They said it's alkalinity * volume /183.

Hmmmmm...

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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby Aleman » Fri May 06, 2016 14:11

It's how much alkalinity you want to remove Time the volume to be treated Divided by 183.

If you have an alkalinity of say 125, and you are brewing a pale ale you want to leave behind 30, so you need to remove 95 . . . if you remove all the alkalinity the mash has less buffering capability and the pH will crash. . . . Sorry those on Face book are wrong

In a low calcium situation as well if you remove too much the pH actually rises above 5.8!! Yeah, not what you expect

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 14:17

Weird!

Yes that's what I thought.

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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby pittsy » Fri May 06, 2016 17:58

Send them knobs from face book round my end Nick , I'll sort em . There's always some prick on face book who sticks there nose in where it's not asked for :evil: Keep up the good work mate :thumb:
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Re: X litres of water. X CACO3. X value of intended CACO3

Postby NickW » Fri May 06, 2016 17:59

Ha! Cheers Mark!

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