Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

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Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby Lanky94 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 23:25

Evening all.

I have read someone ( well I think I have) that invert sugar is 100% fermentable.
Now then, so invert is made from raw unrefined cane sugar huh?
The question is..........instead of using DME for a starter can I use raw cane sugar?

Has anyone tried it?
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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby Rolfster » Fri Sep 23, 2016 00:39

I think it would be a bad idea.... I'm not 100% about this but the yeast will get used to the easy fermentable and once pitched into the wort not be able to ferment everything that is there.
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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby HTH1975 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 07:40

Maybe with yeast nutrient added?

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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby graysalchemy » Fri Sep 23, 2016 07:55

Bad idea you will switch the yeasts metabolic pathways during the growth phase which means the yeast when it hits the wort won't know what to do.

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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby AltonAnt » Fri Sep 23, 2016 07:57

HTH1975 wrote:Maybe with yeast nutrient added?


Not a good idea at all.
You want to condition yeast to the compounds they will be fermenting.
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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby rlemkin » Fri Sep 23, 2016 08:38

It'd probably work ok, but as others have said it's not ideal. I'd only do it if the yeast was very very old and I had no alternative.
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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby graysalchemy » Fri Sep 23, 2016 09:00

rlemkin wrote:It'd probably work ok, but as others have said it's not ideal. I'd only do it if the yeast was very very old and I had no alternative.


But why would you then put it in your wort which will have cost you more than the yeast did ?That makes no sense, my point was it will affect he way the beer ferments.

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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby Lanky94 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:29

That's out then lads.........just a thought ( as you do).

Thanks for the advice
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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby robwalker » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:35

The well known phrase here is "giving them dessert before their main" - save the sugary apple pie for last if you want them to finish their Sunday roast (wort sugars) :d
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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby Lanky94 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 01:56

robwalker wrote:The well known phrase here is "giving them dessert before their main" - save the sugary apple pie for last if you want them to finish their Sunday roast (wort sugars) :d


So in a normal brew, should invert sugar be added the end of during primary fermentation?
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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby robwalker » Sat Sep 24, 2016 08:08

Ideally yes, but depending on quantity most don't bother. Certainly in a high abv beer, it's helpful to add syrup after the main ferment.
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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby Good Ed » Sat Sep 24, 2016 14:58

Lanky94 wrote:
robwalker wrote:The well known phrase here is "giving them dessert before their main" - save the sugary apple pie for last if you want them to finish their Sunday roast (wort sugars) :d


So in a normal brew, should invert sugar be added the end of during primary fermentation?


I always add the invert half way through the boil

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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby Kyle_T » Sun Sep 25, 2016 19:53

Good Ed wrote:
Lanky94 wrote:
robwalker wrote:The well known phrase here is "giving them dessert before their main" - save the sugary apple pie for last if you want them to finish their Sunday roast (wort sugars) :d


So in a normal brew, should invert sugar be added the end of during primary fermentation?


I always add the invert half way through the boil


Same here.

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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby Bribie G » Sun Nov 20, 2016 06:04

Bump
re the original post, if you ever visit Northern Australia you can do a tour of a cane sugar mill.
Unrefined raw cane sugar looks a bit like Demerara sugar and is just sucrose (i.e. not inverted) with many of the molasses type components still in it.
The cane is first crushed then the juices are boiled until "raw" sugar starts to crystallize out. At a certain stage, the crystals - still quite brown looking - are removed and go on to be further purified into white sugar.
The remaining dark syrup is further processed to recover more crystals then at that stage most mills also invert some of the remaining syrup using acids such as citric etc. to produce golden syrup.

The absolute end point is molasses that goes on to rum or cattle feed etc.

So using raw sugar in a brew you aren't using inverted sugar, as that so-called raw sugar is actually split off from the "stream" before inverted products are made.
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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby john luc » Sun Nov 20, 2016 13:31

:vomit: Them yeasty boys are very fickle bunch of lads so they are. If you want them to cheer for the malt team then use malt based starter otherwise they might want to shout out for the wrong team later when you put them in the main wort. Be like having Man U fans becoming Liverpool fans or Arsenal fans becoming.......
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Re: Yeast starter with raw cane sugar

Postby graysalchemy » Sun Nov 20, 2016 13:50

Nicely put John.

Its not rocket science really you wouldn't train for the 100m and then put yourself in the marathon, its just not going to happen.

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