Hop Utilization Chart

The supporting act

Hop Utilization Chart

Postby rodwha » Tue Aug 25, 2015 15:22

Hopefully this works. My attempts have been failing so I got SWMBO to help (she is like my IT).

It didn't work either. It says my links looks too spammy... I'll try a screenshot...
Attachments
image.jpg
image.jpg (113.53 KiB) Viewed 2170 times

________________________________________
"Anyway on the wall was this sign. People who drink light beer don't really like beer. They just like to piss a lot."

"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

"I ask not the favor given to Paul," Copernicus said, "I seek not the grace bestowed upon Peter--but I beg the mercy granted to the thief on the cross!" - Alexander Smellie 1899
User avatar
rodwha
Brewer
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 02:35
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby rodwha » Tue Aug 25, 2015 15:25

What a struggle! Good thing I have SWMBO!

Because of this chart I have changed my aroma time to 7 mins, my flavoring to 21 mins, and my bittering, partly due to the series of 7's here, but also for a bit of extra bang, to 70 mins.

________________________________________
"Anyway on the wall was this sign. People who drink light beer don't really like beer. They just like to piss a lot."

"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

"I ask not the favor given to Paul," Copernicus said, "I seek not the grace bestowed upon Peter--but I beg the mercy granted to the thief on the cross!" - Alexander Smellie 1899
User avatar
rodwha
Brewer
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 02:35
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby legionuk » Tue Aug 25, 2015 23:06

Where has it come from? How has the data been obtained?

Maidstone Brewers Homebrew Meets - Next Meet 19:30 Tuesday 30 August
https://Twitter.com/maidstonebrews https://www.facebook.com/groups/maidstonebrewers
User avatar
legionuk
Brewer
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 23:53

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby rodwha » Tue Aug 25, 2015 23:25

This I am not sure of. It was shown to me on an American brewing forum. There it was questioned and a few wondered if hops, with their variations, may behave differently, and that this was a general idea.

Popular aroma times are 5 mins and popular flavoring times are 15-20 mins so it's likely not far from the truth the way I see it.

________________________________________
"Anyway on the wall was this sign. People who drink light beer don't really like beer. They just like to piss a lot."

"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

"I ask not the favor given to Paul," Copernicus said, "I seek not the grace bestowed upon Peter--but I beg the mercy granted to the thief on the cross!" - Alexander Smellie 1899
User avatar
rodwha
Brewer
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 02:35
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby jkp » Wed Aug 26, 2015 06:15

That's very interesting, thanks for posting!

IF this is really true then a 15min addition, for example, is really not using your hops wisely. You lose 30% flavour as compared to 20min, but only gain 10% aroma as compared to 7min.

User avatar
jkp
Brewer
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 14:34
Location: China

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby rodwha » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:24

My times were at 5 and 15 mins until I was shown this chart. I like to be efficient when I can.

________________________________________
"Anyway on the wall was this sign. People who drink light beer don't really like beer. They just like to piss a lot."

"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

"I ask not the favor given to Paul," Copernicus said, "I seek not the grace bestowed upon Peter--but I beg the mercy granted to the thief on the cross!" - Alexander Smellie 1899
User avatar
rodwha
Brewer
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 02:35
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby robwalker » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:32

I'd say it's as down to your cooling time as much as your hop addition time. between 7 & 20 minutes you go from maximum aroma to none...if your beer stays hot for nearly 13 minutes above what this chart assumes is normal cooling time, you're getting no aroma...

not meaning to put it down, just take it with a pinch of salt!
User avatar
robwalker
Brewer
 
Posts: 3420
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 18:55
Location: Longbridge, Birmingham

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby rodwha » Wed Aug 26, 2015 16:41

For non IPAs cooling is fairly quick. However, and I hadn't really thought about that aspect, when doing IPAs now I do whirlpools for about 28 mins which would not be dropping that temp very quickly, though it might be getting me under 170* F within maybe 10 mins.

I dry hop with a fair amount too (these are expensive to brew, and I use almost a pound/45 grams of hops), and so maybe that's why I still have a very strong aroma. There is no doubt plenty of hops were used if you get close to my glass!

I almost posted the Cascadian Dark Ale (a favorite of mine!) recipe I just created to use up some old hops, but it got a bit complicated with what I used at which times that I figured I'd get several curious stares and hear murmuring in the background. In essence it uses 1/2 oz (28 g) of Warrior for bittering @ 70 mins, 2.5 oz (70 g) of a combination of Warrior, Columbus, and Centennial @ 21 mins, 2.75 oz (77 g) of a combination of Columbus, Centennial, and Cascade @ 7 mins, 2.5 oz of a combination of Warrior, Columbus, and Centennial for a 28 min whirlpool, and 2.75 oz of a combination of Columbus, Centennial, and Cascade for a 7 day dry hop. This brings my 5.8% ABV IPA to a rough calculated IBU of 95, though I don't believe Brewtoad accounts properly for top off water (I'll use close to a gallon/3.8 L), but then also doesn't give any IBUs for Whirlpooling.

This style of a small bittering addition with the IBUs made up in the late additions is called west coast style, and is by far my favorite.

________________________________________
"Anyway on the wall was this sign. People who drink light beer don't really like beer. They just like to piss a lot."

"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

"I ask not the favor given to Paul," Copernicus said, "I seek not the grace bestowed upon Peter--but I beg the mercy granted to the thief on the cross!" - Alexander Smellie 1899
User avatar
rodwha
Brewer
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 02:35
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby rlemkin » Thu Oct 01, 2015 13:01

Maximum flavour at 20 minute? Eh? No.
User avatar
rlemkin
Brewer
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:49
Location: Edinburgh.

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby rodwha » Thu Oct 01, 2015 16:48

Can you expound on this?

________________________________________
"Anyway on the wall was this sign. People who drink light beer don't really like beer. They just like to piss a lot."

"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

"I ask not the favor given to Paul," Copernicus said, "I seek not the grace bestowed upon Peter--but I beg the mercy granted to the thief on the cross!" - Alexander Smellie 1899
User avatar
rodwha
Brewer
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 02:35
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby vacant » Thu Oct 01, 2015 17:21

Every time I see it I just love this chart.

OMG! no point in dry hopping as aroma drops to zero! I must also be careful to hit 100% aroma at 7 minutes because if I wait until 3 minutes before the end I only have 50% of the aroma. I never realised a few minutes could make such critical differences.

I suppose if I sniff with one blocked nostril I can simulate 50% aroma. To quote Red Dwarf "What does it mean, what does any of this mean?"

My future plans include not much
User avatar
vacant
Brewer
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 17:16
Location: looking out at the view

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby rlemkin » Thu Oct 01, 2015 21:11

rodwha wrote:Can you expound on this?


Flavour and aroma are all subjective. Adding hops at different times can brign out differing characteristics of the same hop. There's just no single 'correct' time to add hops for flavour or aroma. I'm a big fan of flame-out/hop-stands. So 0 minutes / 30 minute whirlpool. I get more than 10% flavour and aroma ;)
User avatar
rlemkin
Brewer
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:49
Location: Edinburgh.

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby rodwha » Thu Oct 01, 2015 23:28

I'm not sure that it's meant to be taken as an absolute with every hop type.

Boiling effects hops differently than does hot and cold. That's not even the way it can be looked at so the comparison against dry hopping is moot. I was hoping for a conversation and not drivel. It's how people learn whereas responses like that aren't generally taken very well.

________________________________________
"Anyway on the wall was this sign. People who drink light beer don't really like beer. They just like to piss a lot."

"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

"I ask not the favor given to Paul," Copernicus said, "I seek not the grace bestowed upon Peter--but I beg the mercy granted to the thief on the cross!" - Alexander Smellie 1899
User avatar
rodwha
Brewer
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 02:35
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby vacant » Fri Oct 02, 2015 08:22

I object to the pseudo-science nonsense. What is the 100% scale graduated at 10% intervals representing?

Maybe for bitterness it's IBU but doubling AA IBU doesn't double perceived bitterness so if someone hopes to maximise bitterness and flavour from their hop addition time it won't help.

What is flavour measured in? Does the graph represent amounts of flavour molecules, and again, is the amount of flavour molecules linearly related to perceived flavour? After all it it the taste that matters.

Why on earth should aroma drop to zero at zero minutes? That can only happen if hops are dunked in and removed when the heat is switched off before any cooling.

Should all three elements sum to 100% at any particular point?

I think the exif data for the image has been stripped of it's creation date - 1st April

My future plans include not much
User avatar
vacant
Brewer
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 17:16
Location: looking out at the view

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby Aleman » Fri Oct 02, 2015 09:13

I think I fell foul of this when I was looking at Tinseth's work, Great graph of utilisation, and nice, general, explanation around what was 'going on', but no real data, results, or methodology, plus it appeared to work for me with the kit I had at the time.

This graph on its own (no attribution BTW), and no other data to back it up (Whole hops, pellet hops, hop extract, volume of wort etc), is a pretty picture that generalises what we pretty much already know, bittering hops should be boiled for 60-90 minutes, flavour hops added around 15-30 minutes to go, and aroma hops adding in the last 5 minutes.

It's a generalisation and taking absolutes from it would be a mistake.

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
User avatar
Aleman
Curmudgeonly Brewer
 
Posts: 2862
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 00:28
Location: Mashing In Blackpool, Lancs, UK

Re: Hop Utilization Chart

Postby rodwha » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:41

I don't know anything about this chart or who made it. It does make me want to dig around and see what can be found as I cannot say with any certainty what exactly, or how, it's to be understood, though it's not far from what we think we know, that aroma is within the last 10 mins, that flavor additions have been from there to about 30 mins, and bittering gets stronger the longer it is boiled.

I took 0 mins to mean exactly that, or more in that it hadn't been added as it is supposed to represent the boil and needs to start somewhere.

A 0 min addition is more like a hop stand as it has been taken off of the heat and so it tapers off how the hops oils are effected. And then what you get will also be dependent on how long they are left there which I've never seen represented.

I certainly intend to dig around and see what I can find.

________________________________________
"Anyway on the wall was this sign. People who drink light beer don't really like beer. They just like to piss a lot."

"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

"I ask not the favor given to Paul," Copernicus said, "I seek not the grace bestowed upon Peter--but I beg the mercy granted to the thief on the cross!" - Alexander Smellie 1899
User avatar
rodwha
Brewer
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 02:35
Location: Texas, USA


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest