AA Decline With Time

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AA Decline With Time

Postby Pjam » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:10

Included in hop description is alpha acid after 6 months. Like this .......
'Challenger Hops maintains 70%-85% alpha acid contents after 6 months.'


Soooooooo, does this mean my year old Challenger hops AA should be recalculated from 8% AA, down to about 5% AA :?:
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby robwalker » Sat Oct 04, 2014 20:35

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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Pjam » Sat Oct 04, 2014 21:10

:o :o :o

My year old Challenger, that did have an AA of 8% is now at 0.5% :doh: .......... this explains a lot.

Thanks for the Calculator Rob ........ it scared me silly :lol:
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby robwalker » Sat Oct 04, 2014 21:18

wow. maybe that's a bad calculator, I don't believe they're almost free from AA's at all!
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Pjam » Sat Oct 04, 2014 22:21

robwalker wrote: I don't believe they're almost free from AA's at all!


That was a worse case scenario Rob, but Challenger is very good at retaining AA ......... some hops are not as good. Some loose 50% after 6 months and that's vac sealed in a fridge!
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby RidleyRumpus » Sat Oct 04, 2014 22:40

What conditions have they been stored in?
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Pjam » Sat Oct 04, 2014 23:07

That's part of Robs' calculator RR. Your choices are :-

Not sealed or sealed in poly bags
Sealed in barrier packaging, airtight jars, but not free from oxygen
Sealed in barrier packaging, airtight jars under vacuum.


http://brewerslog.appspot.com/HopAlphaCalc
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby RidleyRumpus » Sat Oct 04, 2014 23:39

I know, so how have yours been stored?
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Dennis King » Sat Oct 04, 2014 23:59

If it's accurate that's a decent calculator.
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Good Ed » Sun Oct 05, 2014 00:23

I think this can be taken out of proportion a bit. We are all using hops that are quite old and I haven't noticed a lack of bitterness in beers that I've brewed. Hops are harvested about this time of year and these would not even make it to our homebrew outlets for probably another 6 months, they are then packaged and stored in cold conditions, we then buy and invariably use a pack of 100g over a number of brews. So according to this calculator we are way off on what we are expecting for AA's. To further complicate matters, and you would need to read the Hop book for more information, whilst oxidation is bad, aging of hops can promote certain esters to the beer that would be lacking without this aging.

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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Pjam » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:49

RidleyRumpus wrote:I know, so how have yours been stored?


Opps sorry. Yes. The ones I tried out the calculator on were in the fridge (freezers full) and an open packet. You do get a much better result from the Ap when frozen .
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Raptor » Sun Oct 05, 2014 17:20

Good Ed wrote: they are then packaged and stored in cold conditions,



How many homebrew suppliers store their hops cold? My local one (Aldershot) certainly does not. Same with dried yeast - the sachets are just stored on the shelf whereas they would be better being stored in the fridge like liquid yeasts.
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Good Ed » Sun Oct 05, 2014 21:03

I was referring to the Malt Miller, Worcester Hop Shop etc, and yes many Home Brew shops don't, and don't even vac pack them either.

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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby GrowlingDog » Sun Oct 05, 2014 21:12

I hope this isn't accurate, the challenger I used today were 2011 harvest. That would mean they are now useless. Well the wort tasted bitter before it went in the fermenter so there must have been something there.
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby robwalker » Mon Oct 06, 2014 09:37

I've always used that calc for hops over a few months but I'm gonna call it inaccurate after seeing how it calculates a 6 month old hop. They are clearly fine at that point!
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Pjam » Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:23

GrowlingDogBeer wrote:I hope this isn't accurate,


Hmmm yes. Challenger 8% AA, 1100 days old, 'Sealed in barrier packaging, airtight jars, but not free from oxygen' and in the freezer ........... = 0.6%AA


Oh dear.
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Hairybiker » Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:42

Hmm, I used a GOLD block of hops several years ago, that had been in a drawer for about 4-5 years before that, unopened.
I thought the same probably lost some of the AA. So I used the whole 100g rather than 40g. Result .... I had to leave it for about 4-5 months before the bitterness had reduced enough for me to drink it.

I take any "brew calculator" with a LARGE pinch of salt. Use your built in calculators. Your brain and taste buds.

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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Pjam » Tue Apr 14, 2015 16:50

I've comeback to this thread with a little more ken .......( I hope) Some of my brews lacked bitterness and I wondered if I was wrong to ignore the subject.

Hop varieties decline at a different rate so I've based this on the 'First Gold' I'm using. I seems, as far as I can tell, at room temp my hop will loose about 20% of it's AA in 6 months but I freeze them so that improves to about 7% (a third) so in 6 months it'll be down from 8.5% AA to 7.9% AA. in a year down to 7.3% AA and in two years (it's a 2013 crop) 6.3% AA.

That's what tomorrows brew will be based on so we'll see.
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 18:41

I thought aa degraded to beta acids which still added to the ibu's , so what you lost with one you gained with the other. Sure I read that it designing great beers, but I may be completely wrong I have been known to be before now. :whistle:

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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Pjam » Tue Apr 14, 2015 19:16

graysalchemy wrote:I thought aa degraded to beta acids which still added to the ibu's


Ah .... that, I didn't know. I may have to go back to my studies.

graysalchemy wrote: I may be completely wrong I have been known to be before now. :whistle:


Yes, me too :lol:
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 19:22

As I said it's a piece of info from the back of my head but as I said either I am wrong or am right in thinking that but my source was completely wrong, there is plenty of misinformation about brewing out there, some of it by me :rofl:

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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Pjam » Tue Apr 14, 2015 19:39

graysalchemy wrote: some of it by me :rofl:


Oh I'm helping you :cheers:
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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 19:41

I see Alemans cruising this fora. Awaiting my correction now :oops:

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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby Aleman » Tue Apr 14, 2015 19:42

Ok I'll Oblige :D

graysalchemy wrote:I thought aa degraded to beta acids which still added to the ibu's

Image :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

IBUs' come from iso alpha acids which are formed when the alpha acids are boiled.

If you want a simple explanation have a look >>> Here<<<

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Re: AA Decline With Time

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 19:47

I knew I was talking bollocking. I feel like Alan Davies on QI now :oops:

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