Using coffee syrup in TC

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Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby Wee_Dave » Tue Jun 13, 2017 20:50

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Brewing Forum congregation, I come seeking advice and support as I intend dipping my toes into the world of TC Brewing and would like your opinion(s) on the following:

SWMBO likes the Brothers Toffee Apple cider. She has a birthday coming up at September's end, and I would like to try and replicate it: only a 1 gallon batch, mind in case it turns out, er, crap.

Have been through this - and Jim's - forum, but not sure if I've missed anyone using toffee (or any other flavour) coffee syrup in TC. :scratch:

What would be the consensus? In with the other ingredients at the start? Maybe as a priming agent? How much?

My basic recipe would be:
500ml Suma Apple juice concentrate (I've been paying attention OldBloke!)
Top up with water
1 tsp tannin powder
Yeast nutrient
Yeast (I've a spare Cooper's Ale yeast in the fridge...)
Toffee coffee syrup (but unsure as to when to add and in what quantity)

Would prime with 1 tsp granulated per pint and back-sweeten with Splenda to taste.

Thoughts and advice please?

Cheers,
Wee Dave.
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Re: Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby Rolfster » Wed Jun 14, 2017 08:41

The ale yeast would leave a sweetness which would be good for this try of cider.
How much sugar is in the syrup? It could ferment out and end up being really strong!
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Re: Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby Wee_Dave » Wed Jun 14, 2017 09:12

On the label, visible here: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/default.aspx?id=280515429 the ingredients are listed as:

Sugar, water, flavouring, salt, colouring agent: E150, contains macadamia nut extract

The nutritional value label states:
Per 100ml (Serving size 30ml)
Energy 325kcal
Total Carbohydrates 80.2g
- Total Sugar 0g
- Added Sugar 0g

:scratch:

So, now I'm confused, but as Sugar is the primary ingredient, I'm going to guess that there is a LOT in there! I don't want it overly strong as she won't drink it if it knocks her sozzled after 1 pint.

Maybe toffee essence - added when bottling - would be better...
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Re: Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby oldbloke » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:04

Monin do sugar-free syrups as well as ordinary sugary ones. The ordinary one looks to be 80% sugar, so a 250ml bottle is somewhere around 200gm sugar, or about an extra 2% on the ABV (in a 1 gallon recipe). If you could find the sugar-free one - and it didn't have any sorbates or sulphites - it would let you get more apple juice in there: with just 500ml Suma you're at the same level of apple as just using 4l of cheap AJ. OK the flavour and acidity of Suma is spot on but it'd be nice to get a bit more apple in. However I think you could be on to a winner with the sugar Monin, but it'll be about 6.5%, maybe 7
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Re: Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby Wee_Dave » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:25

Sugar free Caramel has potassium sorbate in. Guessing that will inhibit fermentation.

50ml full syrup would keep the final abv down. Think I'm going to the shops and see what I can get...

Edit: found a caramel syrup in Asda which is 65g sugar per 100ml. Arithmetic ain't my strong suit, but certain that 80ml gives 52g sugar.

With 4.5l Asda 100% Apple Juice giving 11g per 100ml, thus that should be (total) 495g sugar + the 52g from the syrup then 547g sugars.

Roughly approx 5-6%, maybe the lower end if using ale yeast... :scratch:

Well, it's all an experiment at the end of the day!

Further edit:

Just back from the shops and bought the juice, the granulated sweetener and the caramel syrup. The rest of the stuff I had already.

Image

Going to add 2 tsp of ground cinnamon. There's 3 sticks in the jar, but just going to leave them!

Plan is to:
- Put 2 tsp ground cinnamon, 80ml syrup and a 0.5l of AJ in a pot on the stove and gently heat to dissolve the powder and make the syrup more liquid-y, then allow to cool to 25 degrees.
- Add to DJ, top up to 3.5l with AJ, add 7g yeast, 1 tsp of nutrient and 1 tsp of tannin, give it a shake to mix, bung the airlock on and let it go for 4 days. Will then top up to the shoulder of the DJ with AJ and leave for further 10 days or until gravity steady or ~1.000
- Will taste and then draw 250ml out and play with adding the sweetener, 1/4 tsp at a time to desired sweetness.
- Siphon the lot into 330ml Corona bottles, primed with 1/2 tsp of granulated and with the added sweetener.
- Leave to carb and condition until end of September (practically 3 months: whole of July, whole of August and September) and crack one.

Hoping to get this underway on Friday.

Wish me luck!
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Re: Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby robwalker » Wed Jun 14, 2017 16:10

Brothers etc have syrup added after the ferment, so you could grab a bottle of normal cider and add a measured dose in the glass to get a feel for it. Might be the best way to serve it anyway, as you'll have a both normal and a toffee apple cider on hand.
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Re: Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby Wee_Dave » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:22

robwalker wrote:Brothers etc have syrup added after the ferment, so you could grab a bottle of normal cider and add a measured dose in the glass to get a feel for it. Might be the best way to serve it anyway, as you'll have a both normal and a toffee apple cider on hand.


Good idea Rob!

I've followed your advice and just made a regular TC:
- 3.5l AJ
- 1 tsp Gervin Ale Yeast
- 1 tsp Yeast Nutrient
- 1 tsp tannin powder
- OG 1.050

Threw it all in the DJ, shook the DJ for about 1 minute, bunged the airlock in and, et voila, TC #1 is on the go! :party:

Image

This will be taste tested (to assess the quantity of sweetener addition), primed with 0.5 tsp granulated and will be served with additional caramel syrup, in an attempt to replicate the taste of toffee Apple cider.

I'll start faffing about with adding different ingredients - such as cinnamon - once I've done a few of these!!

Cheers to Rolfster, OldBloke and your good self Rob, for the help and advice! :thumb:
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Re: Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby Rolfster » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:49

Sounds good to me!
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Re: Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby jkp » Sat Jun 17, 2017 17:22

I hope you're going to top that DJ up with more juice. I hate to see all that wasted fermentation space. ;)
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Re: Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby Wee_Dave » Sat Jun 17, 2017 17:38

jkp wrote:I hope you're going to top that DJ up with more juice. I hate to see all that wasted fermentation space. ;)


Natch :D

Once initial fermentation has subsided. :thumb:
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Re: Using coffee syrup in TC

Postby Wee_Dave » Thu Jun 22, 2017 19:55

Have topped it up with another litre of AJ, on Monday.

Total sugars now around 495g so revised OG of around 1.040-ish?

so potential 4.5% to 5.3% abv (ballpark) should the yeast do the business! Leaving it now til next Thursday and get a reading.

EDIT: Sunday 2nd July - reading of 1.002. So, I'm sure it's in the region of 5% abv. Racked off into another FV where it will sit for 4 days, before being read again and then bottled, probably Friday morning.

Taste-wise? It tastes like cider. :party:
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