Access to a old english apple Orchard.

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Mon Nov 28, 2016 22:43

Buster wrote:

Your are more than welcome, I asked for help a while back on here and was overwhelmed by the generosity of the members on here so I am merely returning the help. This is and always will be a great Forum :hat:


Thats the beauty of any forums John , helping each other , i was made up with your offer considering im new to brewing and the forum, but when i get to bottling this country cider up and primed i,ll return the bottles you sent with a taster you can keep and only open next summer , so its had a fair amount of time to condition .

Nothing better to me than cracking open a nice cider especially when having a bbq on a warm summers evening , hopefully will taste even better knowing its been picked , pulped, pressed and brewed by my good self :mrgreen: :cheers1:

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Crastney » Mon Nov 28, 2016 23:07

Looks good Cider-Sim I'm impressed!

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby jkp » Tue Nov 29, 2016 04:40

Good job! You've got a nice press there. Perhaps you're scatting/grinding could be a little finer though. I use a cloth and rack press and now have a new grinder which produces quite a fine grind (not to the point of being apple purée though). I'm sure it helped with efficiency and speed too.

I also noticed that your apples have quite a bit of black spot. My apples also had a bit too, but I made sure to cut it out where possible. Anybody know if this is necessary? I can't imagine a commercial cidery would be able to go through each apple and cut away the black spot.

Incidentally, I also cut my apples in half/quarter before grinding, and there were a few with bugs (and their faeces!) inside. Of course that also got cut out. I guess the commercial cidery doesn't do that either! :vomit:

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Tue Nov 29, 2016 14:17

Crastney wrote:Looks good Cider-Sim I'm impressed!



I impressed myself Crastney :rofl: but appreciate your kind words , this will impress you as well, i have a huge garden south facing that has the sun all day, so iv ordered 4 true cider apple trees of the vintage variety , profusion crab apple, black dabinett, fair maid of devon and sweet alford,
so looking forward to receiving them and watch them grow , nice thought going down the garden to collect true cider apples :party: .

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Tue Nov 29, 2016 14:26

jkp wrote:Good job! You've got a nice press there. Perhaps you're scatting/grinding could be a little finer though.



That was only the first lot of pulping i had done with a stainless steel pulping blade which connects to a drill, i was just having a break to get pictures as i was progressing , it was very small pieces of scrat time i finished.

I cut out all the bruised bits on the apples but was not fussed about the spots as i knew that got left behind when pressed , finished up with over 8 gallons of juice so well pleased at first pressing and brewing from scratch, its sat in my lounge at a steady 18c and bubbling nicely.
Once fermented , bottled and primed will not be touched to the end of next summer :cheers1:

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Crastney » Tue Nov 29, 2016 16:04

I usually cut up my apples, as my scratter works better with edges to catch on, un cut apples just spin round in it. I don't bother cutting out bruises unless more than half the apple is bruise, and then I just chuck the whole apple. yes commercial entities don't bother, or they take out the obvious really bad ones. I'm jealous of you getting proper apple trees. I'd like that but just not enough room.

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Tue Nov 29, 2016 16:42

Crastney wrote:I usually cut up my apples, as my scratter works better with edges to catch on, un cut apples just spin round in it. I don't bother cutting out bruises unless more than half the apple is bruise, and then I just chuck the whole apple. yes commercial entities don't bother, or they take out the obvious really bad ones. I'm jealous of you getting proper apple trees. I'd like that but just not enough room.

That will be my next purchase a decent size scratter , im very lucky to have the room to plant another four fruit trees down the garden, i already planted a gala apple , cherry and a black cherry plum as well, was always the plan to put down a few vintage true cider apple trees,
no doubt i,ll make wine when the plum tree fruits :rofl:

theres some lovely aromas in my lounge with this lot that is brewing, so be nice next summer to crack open a nice cider brewed at home :mrgreen: :cheers1:
Happy brewer :whistle:

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Crastney » Wed Nov 30, 2016 13:51

secret summer swap maybe... :whistle: :cheers: :cheers1: :drunk:

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Wed Nov 30, 2016 15:46

Crastney wrote:secret summer swap maybe... :whistle: :cheers: :cheers1: :drunk:

Sounds good to me buddy :party: :thumb: :drink: :cheers1:

Busters Old Rosie yeast starter is definitely at work got a layer like crust on top in the fermenter .
The fresh aroma of apples is heaven.

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby MrBoy » Wed Nov 30, 2016 21:39

I thought fermenting cider normally smelled like farts?!
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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Wed Nov 30, 2016 23:30

MrBoy wrote:I thought fermenting cider normally smelled like farts?!

You need to change your diet :shock: :lol:

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby jkp » Thu Dec 01, 2016 03:43

Cider-Sim wrote:
MrBoy wrote:I thought fermenting cider normally smelled like farts?!

You need to change your diet :shock: :lol:


I find that the sulphur smell doesn't start until a few days into fermentation. It can be improved by adding yeast nutrients, but it will go away naturally anyway over a few weeks even without any additions.

Out of curiosity, what temperature are you fermenting at?

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Crastney » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:28

Have you got DJs for that to go into?
There's a lot of headspace in that FV, and once fermentation slows down, you'll have a large surface area in contact with air. I recently made some cider, which I left in a bucket with a lid on, like yours, about 2.5 gallons in a 5 gal bucket, and when I finally got round to doing something with it, it smells/tastes rather unpleasent. it's either down to temp being slightly too high during initial fermentation, or it's down to oxidisation, the second being far more likely. If you can, I'd get it into DJs or a another container with a smaller top area, like a pressure barrel, or you could top up with more juice to nearer the top of the bucket (speed of oxidation is proportional to surface area/volume - to slow it down you can reduce the surface area (filling DJs above the shoulder) or increase the volume, keeping the surface area the same - ie add more juice). best option is DJs with airlocks though.

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Thu Dec 01, 2016 13:09

jkp wrote:I find that the sulphur smell doesn't start until a few days into fermentation. It can be improved by adding yeast nutrients, but it will go away naturally anyway over a few weeks even without any additions.

Out of curiosity, what temperature are you fermenting at?


I put yeast nutrients in at the start of fermentation :whistle: :lol: but have had that slight sulphur smell when using the cider kits, but it soon passed, this brew has sat at a steady 18 c since start of fermentation which i think is ideal ? :cheers1:

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Thu Dec 01, 2016 13:16

Crastney wrote:Have you got DJs for that to go into?
There's a lot of headspace in that FV, and once fermentation slows down, you'll have a large surface area in contact with air. I recently made some cider, which I left in a bucket with a lid on, like yours, about 2.5 gallons in a 5 gal bucket, and when I finally got round to doing something with it, it smells/tastes rather unpleasent. it's either down to temp being slightly too high during initial fermentation, or it's down to oxidisation, the second being far more likely. If you can, I'd get it into DJs or a another container with a smaller top area, like a pressure barrel, or you could top up with more juice to nearer the top of the bucket (speed of oxidation is proportional to surface area/volume - to slow it down you can reduce the surface area (filling DJs above the shoulder) or increase the volume, keeping the surface area the same - ie add more juice). best option is DJs with airlocks though.




Demijohns all sterilised ready and waiting :notworthy: the other 5 gallon FV is filled right to the top so hardly any airspace at all , brilliant advice Crastney cheers mate :notworthy: :thumb:

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Crastney » Thu Dec 01, 2016 13:20

your welcome. I've been making cider since 2004, and I've learnt a lot, mostly from other peoples freely offered advice, so I try to pass on small nuggets of wisdom when I can, if it'll help others to avoid common issues.

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Sat Dec 17, 2016 17:03

Took delivery of my 4 vintage cider apple trees yesterday and planted 3 this morning, can watch these grow and bloom now for the next few years then I can make true vintage cider from me own back yard.
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Black Dabinett which is my bitter sweet.

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Fair maid of Devon which is the sharp and bittersharp.

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Profusion is a crabapple which is the pollinator and for the tannins.
Tomorrow I will plant the Sweet Alford which is the sweet part of the true vintage cider.
Good mornings work and start of a very exciting adventure.


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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby HTH1975 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 19:43

You're gonna have access to some nice cider apples in a few years. Will be interesting to do some swaps next summer. I've got two DJs of cider that's fermented down from late October and also a DJ of perry (no yeast added, just whatever was on the skins).

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Sat Dec 17, 2016 20:30

HTH1975 wrote:You're gonna have access to some nice cider apples in a few years. Will be interesting to do some swaps next summer. I've got two DJs of cider that's fermented down from late October and also a DJ of perry (no yeast added, just whatever was on the skins).


Iv got access to a proper old english orchard now with some lovely cider apple trees , but got a huge garden and really wanted to do vintage cider from me own trees.

Iv quite a few litres put down of turbo ciders and cider kits which im letting condition till next summer . Also just waiting on a cider from apples which has been fermenting last few weeks , will take a hydrometer read tomorrow and maybe rack off on to a camden tablet and let it warm condition for 4/5 days before priming and bottling up.
That will be left untouched until late next summer . :cheers1:

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Buster » Sat Dec 17, 2016 21:12

Good work that man.....you really are enjoying yourself, well done.

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Tue Dec 20, 2016 16:41

So after 3 weeks fermentation and a hydrometer reading of 995 the last 3 days and no activity in the bubble traps I decided to rack off, syphoned onto a Camden tab in each sterilized demi and topped up with pure apple juice.
Will leave to warm condition 4/5 days then will bottle up and prime as I like a fizzy cider.
They can then cold condition until end of next summer.
Finished at about 6 % so I'm quite happy with that as a first attempt at a vintage cider.

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby MrBoy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 15:46

Mind if I ask why you moved to DJs to condition rather than leaving in the FV or transferring to another one?

Also won't racking onto a Campden tablet kill the yeast?
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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Cider-Sim » Wed Dec 21, 2016 15:54

MrBoy wrote:Mind if I ask why you moved to DJs to condition rather than leaving in the FV or transferring to another one?

Also won't racking onto a Campden tablet kill the yeast?


Beacause of head space in a half empty fv and chance of contamination, and after 3 weeks fermentation and a hydrometer reading the same for 3 days , i took it as ferment was done.
The recipe im following said to rack off onto a camden tablet at the end of fermentation so thats what iv done..... 8-)

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby Crastney » Wed Dec 21, 2016 16:47

racking onto a CT won't kill the yeast, it'll just stun them for a while, and it helps to avoid oxydation, or other nasties taking hold.
the yeast you've got in there will recover if there's sugars there.
There will be fermentable sugars in the apple juice, so fermentation will kick off again in the DJs - you'll need more than 4 or 5 days for that to really be finished before bottling.
once it's bottled (with priming sugar, or AJ) - 2 weeks warm ish, for the sugars to be converted, yes into more alcohol and into CO2, then 2 weeks cold ish should get the CO2 re-absorbed back into the liquid.
any fermentables whilst under airlock will just make it stronger, but you wont' get carbonation if the gas is free to escape.

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Re: Access to a old english apple Orchard.

Postby MrBoy » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:16

Crastney wrote:racking onto a CT won't kill the yeast, it'll just stun them for a while
Ah I didn't realise that. So when you do this on fruit pulp/juice you're simply making sure wild yeast don't get a jump on the yeast you pitch, at which time they are vastly outnumbered?
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