Fermentation Temperature for Cider

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Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby jkp » Tue Jun 28, 2016 09:09

Hi

I'm fermenting cider at the moment using wine yeast which claims an idea temperature range of 64-86F (18-30c). I was surprised by how high that range is compared to beer yeast. Room temperature at the moment is easily 25c and other than something like Saison I wouldn't dream of fermenting a beer at those temperatures.

Is it really ok to ferment cider in the range 25-30c, or should I expect off-flavours or other by-products?

:cheers1:

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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 09:13

I would keep it below 21c especially in the initial stages this is when the precursors of fusel alcohols are formed, the ones that give a hot alcohol taste and also reportedly give you hang overs.

Have you got a garage or shed with a concrete floor? this can act as a heat sink and reduce the temp of the cider whilst it is fermenting, also water baths and wet towels can help.

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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby jkp » Tue Jun 28, 2016 09:22

graysalchemy wrote:I would keep it below 21c especially in the initial stages this is when the precursors of fusel alcohols are formed, the ones that give a hot alcohol taste and also reportedly give you hang overs.

Have you got a garage or shed with a concrete floor? this can act as a heat sink and reduce the temp of the cider whilst it is fermenting, also water baths and wet towels can help.


I do have a brewing fridge, but that was going to be for beer...... what about holding it at 18c in the fridge for 3-4 days and then taking it out into the warmth?

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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 09:46

That would probably work, it is the initial stages that you get fussels forming. I would still try and keep it as low a s possible though after the initial 3 days

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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby oldbloke » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:48

As grays says, under 21 ideally. Just coz the yeast will work up to 30 doesn't mean it's a good idea. I go with the same temps I'd use for beer
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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby robwalker » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:04

As with all yeast, more esters are high temp, cleaner at low temp. I wouldn't go above 26 or so, but I regularly ferment around that temp.
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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:05

But in a commercial operation Rob you use a far greater pitching rate of yeast which reduces ester and fusel production as well.

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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby ericmark » Thu Jun 30, 2016 06:12

Seems an odd time of year to start a cider, I have once added yeast to cider, it was boiled first to kill the natural yeast mainly boiled as all wind falls, but it was an error, it never cleared even after a year.

I have always used the natural yeast with cider simply extract juice and bottle and wait, and wait, and wait, it takes a good 6 months to ferment a cider and in the main since apples arrive in Autumn rather cool, mine was around the 18ºC.

I used eating apples and cooking apples in both cases the resulting cider was rather dry, so at the end you need to kill yeast and add sugar. At least that is what I found. Always worried that the sugar would start fermenting so it was drunk within a week of adding sugar.

It would be interesting to make a cider using cooking, and another using crab apples, and another using cider apples and compare results. But I only have one tree so not really going to happen. I have noticed some very small apples falling of the tree this time of year, maybe they are the apples to use for cider?
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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby graysalchemy » Thu Jun 30, 2016 09:01

Cider will always end up dry unless you back sweeten some how or Keeve it. I do believe using and ale yeast will make it less dry but in general all the sugars in apples are very fermentable especially to cider/champagne yeast.

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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby jkp » Thu Jul 07, 2016 07:03

I've recently been fermenting two identical batches of cider. The first one was in the brew fridge at 18c for a week and then brought out into the 24-26c ambient temperature. The second had yeast pitched at 18c, but was left out of the fridge so would soon rise in temperature. This was initially done due to lack of space in the fridge, but now seems like a nice experiment on the affects of temperature on cider fermentation. Both batches are basic turbo cider recipes being fermented with Cote de Blanc yeast.

Yesterday (2 weeks in) I took samples from both. The first batch was down to 1.002 and still slightly cloudy. It had a nice fresh apple aroma with a crisp but not sharp taste, rather fruity and slightly wine like. The second was down to 1.001 and already very clear. Again it had a nice aroma but was more subtle than the first. The taste again was slightly more bland than the first, but there were no obvious off-flavours or hot alcohol.

Some of the differences might be down to the first batch having not completed fermentation yet and so retaining sightly more sweetness. It'll be interesting to see how they differ once complete. I didn't drink enough to know whether the second batch will give more headaches or hangovers though. That test will have to wait. :drunk:

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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby ericmark » Mon Jul 25, 2016 04:48

Interesting, my wife picked up a kit from Wilko she said it was cheap £15 instead of £20 but since only makes 10 pints I would not call it cheap! There is nothing about temperature to use, except "Room temperature" so the freezer is empty so set to 19.5°C to 20°C it says 48 hours, yes and I really believe that, never had a kit yet that was ready within the stated time.

But unless I draw some cider I would not know anyway, there is nothing in the instructions to test when ready, it simply says get the tap out first, then add yeast, then at 10 pints of water being careful not to get box wet. Wait 48 hours and drink. To my mind £1.50 per pint is not cheap for cider, hardly worth the effort, so I am hoping it is a really good brew at that price.

Yes I am willing to pay £10 for a Orange Brandy kit which is likely only 5 pints, but that is 5 pints at 20% ABV so looking at something like Cointreau so £2 a pint is well worth it with off the shelf costing £15 for 500 ml. But cider is cheap.
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Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby GarrettPymn » Sat Sep 17, 2016 07:27

Hi guys,
Just a quick question.....
Making apple cider, do I do the fermentation like wine with primary and secondary or just pop the airlock straight on and see Yahoo in a few weeks?

Thanks for any advise you can offer
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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby graysalchemy » Sat Sep 17, 2016 08:55

You can do it under airlock or just in an fv like beer. I suppose it depends on what fvs you have. The thing with cider is to let it mature. It will improve with age.

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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby Crastney » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:55

I usually use something with an airtight lid, or a DJ, and an airlock but yesterday I processed a load of apples, and I only had to bucket FVs available so used those. I'm not worried about it though - I'm sure it'll be fine.

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Re: Fermentation Temperature for Cider

Postby Crastney » Fri Nov 04, 2016 17:06

bumping an old thread as I'm not so sure now. I think the temp was too high and/or there was too much airspace in FV, as this has turned out to be tasting of pear drop, or quite a hot alcohol flavour?
anyway - I siphoned into two DJs and stuck in a cupboard for long term storage to see what happens. it's not easily drinkable at the moment.

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