Rice Wine.

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Rice Wine.

Postby Gambler » Sat Jun 28, 2014 17:56

Just popped on my first rice wine last night.

Recipe / method was as follows.



2kg jasmine rice from Lidl (dry weight according to packet). Washed until water ran clearish.

Cook rice in an equal amount of water (in volume)

Spread rice onto melamine tray and left to cool for 3hrs.

Smashed up 4 Chinese yeast balls. These are available from proper Asian shops, the kind that no-one there is likely to speak a word of English. Also available from eBay, but it’s about £2 for 2, when it’s more like £2-£3 for 12 in the Asian shops.

EDIT - You need the right balls, because they are infected with the mould you need to break down the starch into sugars for the yeast.

Sprinkled yeast onto rice, then mixed in by hand.

Filled 4 x 1.5l jars with the rice. I used the clip top ones with the rubber seal, but took the seal out so it doesn’t seal air tight.

Put jars in cardboard box away from light.



Ran into a couple of problems.

Firstly, I didn’t realise how difficult cooking 2kg of rice in 2 pans is lol.

Secondly, it’s claimed to be best to cook the rice in 1 - 1.5 parts water. 1 part water is hard to work with it turns out. I was constantly battling to stop it sticking to the pan, and in the end, gave up, popped the lid on hoping the heat of the rice would cook itself. This didn’t really work, so my rice is a little hard in the middle.

Lastly, I didn’t do the best job of smashing up the yeast balls, cos I massively underestimated the time 6l of cooked rice takes to cool, so didn’t need it until 1:30 in the morning so lost almost all of my motivation by that point. I could have been prepared and done it before I guess, but preperaton isnt really my thing...

Fingers crossed it'll be ok. If not, it only cost me about £4-£5.

At the moment, it just looks like 4 jars of cooked rice. After a few days it should start going a mouldy, then the rice should start liquefying. I’ll post up some pics when (if) the action starts.

There’s a 420+ page thread on homebrewtalk about rice wine if anyone is interested. I'm not saying how I did it is the right/best way, as it’s my first go.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby EvansTheSteam » Sat Jun 28, 2014 18:44

Well done for having a go! :thumb:
Pics and progress will be interesting. :D

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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby GAZ9053 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 21:48

Interesting. Look forward to your updates

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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Gambler » Sat Jun 28, 2014 22:57

Small update.

Opened the box and took out a jar and already there is a small amount of liquid forming at the bottom of the jars, less than 24hrs after pitching! Looks promicing so far :)
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby EvansTheSteam » Sun Jun 29, 2014 00:03

How big are the rice balls?

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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Gambler » Sun Jun 29, 2014 08:58

What do you mean exactly, the yeast ball / rice cake things? If so, then about 1.5".

36 hours in and more liquid has formed, and the level of the rice has dropped about an inch from where the rice has melted away. It’s fascinating to watch!

Some pics!

1st is of all the jars of rice.

Image

The 2nd one is a close up of one of the jars. Hopfully you can see the liquid level of it.

Image

All the jars seam to be progressing at the same rate. Just got to forget about them for a little bit now...
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Brewtrog » Sun Jun 29, 2014 14:02

Will be interesting to see how this goes. I've got a rice wine to bottle soon but that was made with amylase and wine yeast rather than with koji yeast.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby oldbloke » Sun Jun 29, 2014 19:29

Amylase does work then? Coz they use koji I assumed that for some reason it didn't like rice starch.
If it turns out good, put the recipe up!
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Brewtrog » Sun Jun 29, 2014 23:57

Seems to have worked by eye. Koji just secretes amylase, certain beer yeasts do it as well IIRC. Pretty sure I've put a recipe up somewhere on here.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Gambler » Wed Jul 02, 2014 17:00

Had another look today. Progress is still being made.

Its now made enough liquid to float the rice. the liquid only came a little bit more up the rice than is shown in the pics above, but theres around 3/4" of cloudy freestanding liquid under the rice now!

On opening the box, I could smell a strong alchol smell. Its going to be potent, thats for sure. Couldnt smell much else. Didnt open the jar for a proper sniff.

The mould on top hasnt really progress much. Still cant really see it apart from where the big chunks of the yeast ball are, where you can see a little fluffy white mould, with tiny tiny black spots where the spores come from I guess. Nowhere near as grotty as I was expecting.

EDIT

Also, to add to the amylase discusion.

I dont know if that would work with this method or not? Brewtrog's method is very differnt as he adds water and sugar into the fermentation vessel to make a rice soup. This is just cooked rice and the balls, no added water. So I recon the mould itself could help the amylase by breaking up the rice as it infects the rice grains? I recon the pure amylase needs the rice to be covered with water in order for the amylase to do its thing. I dont know if just mixing amylase powder or an amylase solution with the rice would do the trick.

I guess it would have to be tried.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby oldbloke » Wed Jul 02, 2014 20:42

Being a gluten-free household (except for the odd pork pie or doughnut I treat myself to) we have rice flour... Might work with amylase.
OTOH I dunno how much I want a rice wine.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Brewtrog » Wed Jul 02, 2014 21:46

I imagine that you're right about amylase needing the rice covered in water (or at the very least the rice's cooking water) as all it does is turn starch into fermentable sugars - I doubt it'd actually fully break the rice into some form of liquid.

oldbloke wrote:OTOH I dunno how much I want a rice wine.


Have you ever tried Sake? That's just rice wine (although the amylase method probably wouldn't be called sake by any wine snobs). But I imagine the rice flour should do the job, unless it's got any other crap in it. This brings up an interesting idea though - flour wine :hmm: no reason it shouldn't work if you boiled it to break down the gluten - stop it just turning into dough, again would need amylase. Srry that should probably be a separate thread.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby oldbloke » Wed Jul 02, 2014 22:25

Brewtrog wrote:
oldbloke wrote:OTOH I dunno how much I want a rice wine.


Have you ever tried Sake?


Oddly, no. I should try it.

I have tried the stuff we used to get for cooking with from the Chinese supermarket Shaohsing IIRC. Pretty rough, but then so is some of the stuff you get for cooking with in France.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Brewtrog » Wed Jul 02, 2014 22:34

oldbloke wrote:
Brewtrog wrote:
oldbloke wrote:OTOH I dunno how much I want a rice wine.


Have you ever tried Sake?


Oddly, no. I should try it.

I have tried the stuff we used to get for cooking with from the Chinese supermarket Shaohsing IIRC. Pretty rough, but then so is some of the stuff you get for cooking with in France.


I've never understood cooking wine, I was always taught that you should never cook with a wine you wouldn't happily drink.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby EvansTheSteam » Wed Jul 02, 2014 23:16

Brewtrog wrote:I was always taught that you should never cook with a wine you wouldn't happily drink.

You might even put some in the meal! :lol:
Sorry, that's an old one. :oops:

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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Gambler » Fri Jul 04, 2014 18:53

One week update.

Image

As you can hopefully see, it’s producing a SERIOUS amount of liquid. The rice has turned to a scrambled egg consistency now where it’s been broken down and completely saturated with the liquid. Smells extremely alcoholic, sweet and fruity. Smells like a spirit at this point. It’s pretty tempting to harvest now to be honest lol.

I think I will get a reasonable quantity from this batch.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Brewtrog » Sun Jul 06, 2014 22:20

The reason it'll smell so alcoholic is because quite a bit of the ethanol will evaporate and be in gaseous form. being in a sealed kilner jar means that none of it can escape, so the gaseous ethanol makes it smell really strong, so saying would be interesting to know quite how strong it actually is.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Gambler » Sun Jul 06, 2014 22:27

Its not even close to being sealed as I removed the rubber seal :)
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Brewtrog » Sun Jul 06, 2014 22:35

It'll still keep the vast majority of the gasses in. You'll also have the lid (in contact with the relatively cold air) acting as a condenser, meaning that most the ethanol should be kept in the jar
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Gambler » Sun Jul 06, 2014 23:51

I guess...

I don’t think there are many fermenting open top though, so it’s just the norm and hardly worth mentioning really. I'd say I'm less sealed than those with a somewhat airtight lid + airlock.

PS - the smell of alchohol is from smelling around the lid, not opening it.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Brewtrog » Mon Jul 07, 2014 09:19

Fair do's, you've got rocket fuel then :clap: :D
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Gambler » Mon Jul 07, 2014 14:45

lol. I belive so but we will see.

People on homebrewtalk rekon it comes out near 20%. Obviously theres no way to know for sure, as its difficult to get a sg from rice lol.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Brewtrog » Mon Jul 07, 2014 17:32

You'd be able to check the carb content and make a rather (well extremely) rough guess from it
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby Gambler » Mon Jul 07, 2014 20:03

Hmmm, OK we'll give it a go.

potential alcohol = grams of sugar per 100ml /2

76g carbs per 100g uncooked rice. (tilda not lidl, but it'll do)

2000g rice - 1520g carbs. We'll call that 1520g of sugar, as I have no better answer for how much sugar the mold can convert, and how much that weighs compared to the carbs.

Probable final yield - 3,000ml

so (1520/30)/2 = 25.333%

The obvious big assumption here is that (g) carbs = (g) sugar, which it wont.

Random fact, 7140 calories went into those jars lol.
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Re: Rice Wine.

Postby EvansTheSteam » Mon Jul 07, 2014 20:17

???? what is a "carb" ??? :doh: :oops:

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