TC no.3

Making wine, cider or something interesting, show us how you did it here.

TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:29

Hi Guys

I've just put on my next turbo cider.

I put in the following

3.75l (ish) Sainsburys cranberry juice drink
25l Sainsburys apple juice (Non basics, "by Sainsburys" range)
7tsp pectolase
7tsp yeast nutrient
7tsp tannin (maybe more like 6.5 as I used the last of the pot and didnt want to open the next lol)
14tsp calcium carbonate (precipitated chalk)
2x5g Youngs cider yeast.

Will top up with a little more apple juice in a few days.

This is to be a still batch. I will rack onto some wine stabiliser in 3-4 weeks, then chill it as best as I can in this lovely weather for anther 3 weeks or so before sweetening and bottling. The dream is to have completely sediment free bottles. We'll have to see how that works out.

I also plan to sweeten it with a reasonable amount of apple juice (ie, water it down), probably some sugar aswell. I aint worked out how much apple juice yet, but fancy a sweetish cider in the 4% - 4.5% range, so that much I guess.

Took some advise about the chalk from oldbloke. It doesnt sound like he found great success from using it, but I'm looking forward to the results none the less. The stuff was rammed to the top in the pot which made it a bit messy to work with lol. Wasnt sure it was going to disolve very well at first, but had no problems.

I'll let you all know how this pans out :)
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby Aleman » Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:46

Gambler wrote:7tsp pectolase
7tsp yeast nutrient
7tsp tannin (maybe more like 6.5 as I used the last of the pot and didnt want to open the next lol)

:shock: I'm tempted to say you have probably overdone it

Gambler wrote:14tsp calcium carbonate (precipitated chalk)

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
WTF!!

Most find that cider from dessert juice is lacking in acidity and generally requires Malic Acid adding .. .Adding chalk (especially that much) is going to have a drastic effect on the cider and not necessarily in a good way! . . . . Good luck

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
User avatar
Aleman
Curmudgeonly Brewer
 
Posts: 2812
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 00:28
Location: Mashing In Blackpool, Lancs, UK

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:53

I ended up with 67 bottles from my last batch, which was made in the same tub. (67/2)/4.5 = 7.44 gallons. So its just under 1tsp per gallon of pectolase, yeast nutrient and tannin

I dont think your statement about the acid is correct. people add malic acid because the citric / malic acid ratio is wrong in dessert apple juice. So whilst their is not enough malic acid to get MLF going, there is so much citric acid that its still to acidic. Do you not find your turbo cider a little acidic? I certainly do...

Anyway, proof is in the pudding I guess :)
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby Aleman » Mon Jun 16, 2014 14:12

When I've titrated the juice to determine the acidity it comes out at around 4.2-4.5ppt sulphuric, which is actually somewhat below that produced from cider apples. . . . I actually left the malic out of the last batch I made :doh: and was quite surprised at the softness of the cider compared to the batches I made when I added it. I've also never found it necessary to add pectolase to juice ciders, or yeast nutrient either. I use liquid tannin and only around 30ml per 20L batch which is about the same for a white wine . . .don't know how that applies to powdered tannin though

As you say though we brew what we like, and I like sharp dry ciders :twisted:

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
User avatar
Aleman
Curmudgeonly Brewer
 
Posts: 2812
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 00:28
Location: Mashing In Blackpool, Lancs, UK

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Mon Jun 16, 2014 14:22

fair enough.

Kinda lost me with the ppt sulphuric bit to be honest. I guess it supports your statement that the juice is not acidic enough though?

I didnt use pectolase in my first TC, used it in my 2nd and it was MUCH clearer. Maybe coincidence, I dont know, but I'll keep using it untill I run out of other tweaks to try.

Probably wasnt the best batch to try the chalk out on to be honest, as its so radicly differnt from my previous batches, I aint gunna know whats caused what lol.
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby oldbloke » Mon Jun 16, 2014 14:55

I've never used pectolase either. Time works wonders, generally.
I have found some cheapo juices give a cider that's a bit sharp for my taste, which is why I tried chalk once.
Now I've settled on Suma as the base (and the cost be damned!) the acidity doesn't need any adjustment.
User avatar
oldbloke
Moderator
 
Posts: 1238
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 23:26
Location: Todmorden, Wet Yorkshire

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Mon Jun 16, 2014 16:10

Would anyone care to sugest hydrometer reading levels for med dry, med, med sweet?

I've done some googling, but can only find information aimed at wine makers. Is that still valid?

Thanks...
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby Aleman » Mon Jun 16, 2014 16:37

The dangers of a continued slow fermentation taking place with time, make me very cautious of doing so.

What I normally suggest is nipping down to Holland and Barrett and getting hold of some xylitol, which is a non fermentable sweetener, with roughly the same sweetening power as sucrose. . . You can then sweeten a glass to 'medium dry' and determine how much to scale up for whatever volume you want medium dry. . . The same applies to medium and sweet

please note:The use of punctuation, bold, underlining, italics, and different sized type, follows the convention used in writing, for many years, to place emphasis on the point being made, and to highlight the importance of that point in the opinion of the author. It is not the intention of the author to shout, if that was the case the author would adopt the, much more recent, convention of using all capital letters.
Albert Einstein wrote:Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
User avatar
Aleman
Curmudgeonly Brewer
 
Posts: 2812
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 00:28
Location: Mashing In Blackpool, Lancs, UK

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Mon Jun 16, 2014 16:45

Bah, nothing like a bomb under your bed to make you feel alive :D

I sweetened my wine with sugar after stablising, that was ok for the 6 months or so that was hanging around for. I'm deffinatly going sugar in the cider this time around. I wont sue, honest.

got my speadsheet set up for alcohol after diluting with apple juice, just need my sweetness spreadsheet done now :)
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Mon Jun 16, 2014 20:29

Meh.

Going to go with 2 or 3L top up in a couple of days, 5l juice after stablising, + 750g sugar. Should put me at around 1.008 and an alcohol content of around 4.2 -4.3%, asuming initial fg of 0.995.
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:36

Topped up fv today, as its in no danger of escaping.

Decided just to put another 1L in, to leave good room for the apple juice after stablising, thats brought me upto 30l. not sure why I didnt put it all in at the start, theres pleanty of headroom :S

Dropped the lid into the cider a bit when putting it back on :( the liquid went onto the not quite as clean top too...

Fingers crossed it will be ok.
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Thu Jul 03, 2014 18:25

Started operation crash cool today.

Attempted to make an insulation sock © out of 2 bin liners, some spray adhesive and some bubble wrap. The idea was sound but unfortunately, the result didn’t work out. The bin liners only just stretch over the flexi tub that I use for the water bath, and regrettably it seems impossible to make the sock without putting large wrinkles in it thus reducing the diameter. I probably could have done it in situ, but then I have to figure out how the get spray adhesive off the walls... It’s a shame as what I ended up with looked like it would have done the job. I do now have a bubble wrap fitted hat for the FV though, so maybe that will help out a little.

The backup plan is to wrap the FV is a bit of bubble wrap then stick a liner over the top to trap the air. After popping in 6 400g ice blocks into the water bath for 6 hours, it’s dropped the temperature of the bath from 24c to 19c. Pretty poor... hopefully it will drop further as more ice block cycles are done, and be able resist sucking up heat from the room. I’ve now put the hat on the FV too, so I recon that’s going to make all the difference lol.

It will be racked Monday. Then, a pre bottle 2 week cold conditioning faze will begin, but I want to get as much yeast out of suspension first in order to have the best chance of successful chemical stabilisation.
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Sat Jul 26, 2014 23:10

just finished bottling this (yeah, I was feeling lazy).

Cut it with 4l of AJ at bottling.

Stuck a bottle in the freezer for 30 mins or so, and just tried it.

It doesnt really taste of anything... :(

Not really sure what happened there? Perhaps I was wrong to take out the acid (or as much acid) as aleman warned.

I'll try soda streaming it tommorow to see if fizz helps. who knows, maybe some flavour will come out in time? The yeast is dead(ish) though, so I dont know.
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby oldbloke » Sat Jul 26, 2014 23:48

Aleman wrote:Most find that cider from dessert juice is lacking in acidity and generally requires Malic Acid adding


Andrew Lea's book has it exactly the other way around!

My experience with cheapo supermarket juice tends to agree with him.
But Suma diluted about 1:6 is spot on his recommended pH range - can't find the TA figures right now.

I suggest this latest batch will improve a bit in the bottle, but maybe not much. Part of the reason I use Suma is to get more apple in. I feel there's just not enough in cheapo juice.

Also, flat beer tastes wrong, it needs a bit of carbonation. Same for TC, I reckon. If making it to be still, it wants a lot more apple and probably MLF
User avatar
oldbloke
Moderator
 
Posts: 1238
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 23:26
Location: Todmorden, Wet Yorkshire

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Mon Jul 28, 2014 01:28

Blitzed it in the sodastream, and its my best yet!!!

Strange... I like still cider, but not this cider when its still.

Might try messing around with it still. Wedge of lime, that sort of thing.

Very pleased I can turn it into a decent product.

I had a very very very silight pffft when opening the bottles today... got me pretty woried. I'll keep an eye on it.
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Tue Jul 29, 2014 20:25

Tried lemon and lime wedges (separately) today.

Lime doesnt add much, but lemon really turns it into a lovley still cider!

I tried 1/4 of a small lemon, squeezed out a bit of the juice into a pint glass, chucked the wedge in and poured the cider on top. Maybe a little too much lemon, I'll try a little less once I've finished the lime glass.

Would you think me mad for describing spikes in taste of having a sort of position/direction? Anyway, the lemon hits the perfect spot to round of the cider.
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14

Re: TC no.3

Postby Gambler » Mon Aug 04, 2014 16:43

Drunk a few bottles last night without any additions and really enjoyed it! I dont think its changed, but I think I had a very specific end result in mind, and it just wasnt what I was expecting thus I was disapointed when I first tried it. Deffinatly enjoying it being still and sweetened with real sugar though.

I've decided I'll do a simlar recipe next time but tweak it a little. a bit less tannin, a bottle or 2 of rasperry syrup a week in to boost ABV and to add a bit of flavour, and maybe try some red wine yeast instead as I'm looking for a fruiter finish and I remember oldbloke saying that he got that durring his yeast test a while back. I think I'll skip the chalk. Cant make out if that made it better, worse or indifferent.

Hopefully I'll strike it lucky next time and get somthing close to perfect (for me). As I keep changing too many variables and so have no idea what is working and what isnt.
User avatar
Gambler
Brewer
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 13:14


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest