cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Tue Sep 13, 2016 20:19

I'm after suggestions......
i have some foiled bubblewrap and was going to make a jacket to go around my cask (cask is verticle) to try regulate the temprature a little
the big question is i hopefully have aquired a chiller with a recirc python pump that i intend to use to cool the cask
suggestions please on the condencing circuit design (the bit round the cask) i have some 10mm copper pipe to use but suggestions on the design for most efficient cooling would be appreciated coils round the cask or 2 sections either side of the cask

suggestions welcome
steve

Before its suggested a kegorator will not fit a cask easily and i would have a problem of where to put it and lifting a full cask into a kegerator (full cask will weigh around 40Kg) would be a problem with my weak back
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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby aamcle » Tue Sep 13, 2016 21:20

I would have though that great insulation was more important than the exact layout of the cooling coils.

Would it be possible to make a "expanding foam" shell to go around the keg?

It will be so much easier to cool if heat isn't leaking in, there's a project I found via Google were somebody had put a SS vessle in a blue drum and filled in with foam.
The vessel could be lifted out as needed but with a keg you would probably need to make it in two halves so you could get the keg out.


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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby Kyle_T » Tue Sep 13, 2016 21:52

I made one with Andy Rice at the festival, just make a foil jacket and wrap 3/8 beer line around the cask.

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:17

thank you for the replys
I was thinking more down the line of what kyle is suggesting as ale wants to be cool but not cold so some losses won't be a big issue
i was going to make the cooling lines out of copper as that would transfer heat better than plastic beer line (plastic having insulation properties)
Kyle how well did your design work what temp did it keep the beer at?

steve
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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:20

Kept the beer at a steady cellar temp no problem for the whole weekend.

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:38

Kyle
just a quick question cool air falls
what would you think of having a coil that just sits ontop of the cask under the insulated jacket opposed to cooling coils around the sides of the cask?
do you think this would work?
the cask will be upright not on its side

steve
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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Sep 14, 2016 13:23

In principle yes but you may find the top is colder than the bottom, wrapping it around the entire thing takes a few minutes and ensures a consistent cold temperature.

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Wed Sep 14, 2016 15:48

so i need to mak something a bit like this then?
Image
then out of the metalised bubblewrap i will make a cover to go over the whole thing

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Sep 14, 2016 15:52

Nah, just wrap the beer line as a coil around the cask and slot the jacket over it to hold it in place. 3 or 4 times round should do it.

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby PeeBee » Wed Sep 14, 2016 16:49

Kyle_T wrote:Nah, just wrap the beer line as a coil around the cask and slot the jacket over it to hold it in place. 3 or 4 times round should do it.

Just 3 or 4 wraps? I'll be trying to do something similar but had envisaged a total covering of the keg in coils. So my thinking was way over the top? (I wouldn't be surprised). Or where you referring to the bubblewrap? Sorry, I don't do obvious (a big rubber mallet to knock ideas into my head helps).

Was also thinking of using PVC tubing instead of beer line because... well its cheaper and more flexible. And then blow all the savings on those neoprene keg "wetsuits" instead of metallised bubblewrap (19L Cornys). But the "wetsuits" are a right pain to get on; not that I'd plan to get them off again.

How many kegs can you hope to cool with a setup like this (using the "python line" off a Maxi 310 or the like)? I guess the OP is talking about 30L kegs?

Very handy thread this.
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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Sep 14, 2016 19:07

Picture the spacing like a Helter Skelter ride from top to bottom, PVC tubing would work as well and 9mm tubing will fit over 3/8 beer line, we wrapped it around a Firkin 4 times from back to front and ran the line back to the chiller, you could use copper wire to secure the pipe or tubing in place so you can just remove the jacket and pull the keg out/slot it in.

As long as you have a good recirculation pump on the chiller, it will easily do 4 Firkins, so 4 kegs will be an easy job for it.

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Wed Sep 14, 2016 20:21

the problem with your plan of just having coild Kyle is the keg is narrower at the top and bottom than it is in the center third
what you suggested would be great but a arse to withdraw and reapply to the cask
but it would work wekk with a keg with parralel sides to it
if i manage to make something that looks ok i will try posting pic's in the forum for you to all have a laugh at and pick holes in

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Sep 14, 2016 20:41

That was just for PeeBee Steve, the Firkin was just an example of scale.

A cask is much simpler...just gaffa tape the beer line to the Firkin and remove when it needs changing. Wipe the line down and restick on the next.

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Wed Sep 14, 2016 20:54

i was thinking of something like small bungee cord attached to the bottom and top loops of either half then i would pull apart to apply or remove the chiller elements

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Sep 14, 2016 20:56

That would work, we only used gaffa tape as that was all we had at the time.

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Wed Sep 14, 2016 21:56

Thanks all
i will try putting pix on the forum if it worx and i remember to take them as i build it

steve
chiller should arrive Thursday or Friday
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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Thu Sep 15, 2016 17:38

Well it's arrived :-)
i plugged it in and it seems to cool the "ice bank down to 0.5 degrees
the noisest part is the recirc pump still its not bad enough to worry about
it is a MF 2C WR Extra cold 2 proudct coils and a python output/return (how do i know if its designed for water or glycol)
what is the ideal temp to run the "ice bank" at? it has a mechanical thermostat (this may be modified later to be a STC1000 at a later date)

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby mark1964 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 06:22

ours had a water fill in the top you should see a bung or cap on the top of the chiller also on the front there will be a red cap which you pull off when filling from the top. When water trickles out of the red cap on the front its full. Thats if its water not glycol

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Fri Sep 16, 2016 13:52

seems to work ok on water so i'll stick to that for now


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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby mark1964 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 14:14

just make sure its full as it loses some as the weeks go by

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Fri Sep 16, 2016 17:22

i think i need a total rethink about the bar
the cask has some copper pipe wrapped round it then i put 7.5M of foilised bubble rwap around everything itseems to work i can feel cold spots on the bubble wrap where the copper tubing its
but ........ it's like a snakes wedding under the bar now lol

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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Fri Jan 06, 2017 14:46

been a while now i have been using a coil of 10mm copper pipe wrapped around the cask and fed from a shelf cooler
seems to work quite well but changing a cask is a pain in the rear as i said in a previous post the shape of the cask is wider in the middle so the coils at the top and bottom have to be tighter to contact the cask and looser in the middle making the chiller coil a arse to remove
any bright ideas?
especially on ideas of how i could make a jig to bend copper pipe and make saddles for the casks see previous posts for a example pic of the saddles
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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby PhatFil » Fri Jan 06, 2017 20:07

to make a cask cooler like the SS one pictured i would use a brake pipe bender to form the 2 sides on the flat and then form them against the cask using gaffer tape to secure it at the bends.

This will provide a rough form but the copper will have sprung out a bit when released, so next you need a round forming post with a slightly smaller circumference than your cask, and use that to form the round the cask bends close to their target shape.

as long as you use a pipe bender for the tight U and 90 degree bends you can form the longer arcs by hand against a suitable form avoiding kinking by pushing down bridging at least 9 inches of tube between your hands.. wide arcs should not kink but tight bends are a higher risk and the tool is needed.

to clamp onto the cask loop cord between corresponding U bends in each half and tighten with a nail twisting up the loop pulling the 2 sides together.

as copper is something like 40x as efficient at heat transfer than SS you can get away with a bit less metal to metal contact than the off the shelf version and still gain comparable performance, especially if the chill is contained with good insulation.
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Re: cask cooling jacket

Postby sledgehammer » Fri Jan 06, 2017 21:27

cheers for the advice
i was thinking of forming it either flat on a board and making a jig with formers out of wood to bend the copper pipe round or use a old cask and cut it in half (vertically) and using that to make a former of some discription again using wooden formers to make the bends
insulation around the cask is 7.5m of metalised bubble wrap wound around the cask

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