Would this make a mild?

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Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Mon Aug 31, 2015 20:18

Wanting to brew something a little less volcanic on the abv scale so thought I would have a bash at a mild. Then I remembered I don't even know what a mild is....so after a recipe trawl and looking at what I had available I came up with this.

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 12.0
Total Grain (kg): 1.680
Total Hops (g): 48.96
Original Gravity (OG): 1.030 (°P): 7.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.008 (°P): 2.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 2.95 %
Colour (SRM): 13.2 (EBC): 26.0
Bitterness (IBU): 14.3 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60
Grain Bill
----------------
1.440 kg Maris Otter Malt (85.71%)
0.240 kg Crystal 120 (14.29%)
Hop Bill
----------------
5.8 g Admiral Leaf (10.6% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
43.2 g Pioneer Leaf (9.5% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Aroma) (3.6 g/L)
Misc Bill
----------------
Single step Infusion at 67°C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with Ale yeast
Recipe Generated with BrewMate

Any thoughts?
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby bobsbeer » Mon Aug 31, 2015 20:38

Should be okay, although I'd be a little concerned that the colour would be a bit light. Maybe add a small amount of chocolate to add a bit more colour. Kyle is a mild geek so hopefully he will be able to add his thoughts.
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby robwalker » Mon Aug 31, 2015 21:34

Light milds are fine and well recognised, the aim is a low but balanced flavour, so the aroma hopping might be a bit heavy, be better to cut it in half. At that volumr you might get some maillard effect which will darken it, and its 15% crystal so plenty of flavour and colour in there. Yeast is important too, try to use something estery, if you're after dry then mj dark ale will be good. Ibus and grain bill are all good, but if you have some lower alpha hops use them, better accuracy :)
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Mon Aug 31, 2015 22:46

bobsbeer wrote:Should be okay, although I'd be a little concerned that the colour would be a bit light. Maybe add a small amount of chocolate to add a bit more colour. Kyle is a mild geek so hopefully he will be able to add his thoughts.


Cheers Bobsbeer,

the colour fell within the expectations of brewmate but I know nothing lol!!!

Hopefully Kyle will get a chance to comment :thumb:
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Mon Aug 31, 2015 22:54

robwalker wrote:Light milds are fine and well recognised, the aim is a low but balanced flavour, so the aroma hopping might be a bit heavy, be better to cut it in half. At that volumr you might get some maillard effect which will darken it, and its 15% crystal so plenty of flavour and colour in there. Yeast is important too, try to use something estery, if you're after dry then mj dark ale will be good. Ibus and grain bill are all good, but if you have some lower alpha hops use them, better accuracy :)


Thanks Rob,

I have wilkos english ale yeast handy but could get something else if it would help. I have a couple of bags of admiral and pioneer hops and I am keen to use them if possible but happy to cut down the flavour hops especially given the low volume of my big wee pot!!!
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby robwalker » Mon Aug 31, 2015 22:59

That's nottingham rebranded (rumour has it.) I brewed an American mild with it recently and it was bostin.
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby Kyle_T » Tue Sep 01, 2015 08:59

Hello Greg,

Having a look at what you've put I'm assuming your aiming for around 3% abv? Without doing the math you will want your Gravity to Bitterness balance to come in somewhere between the .4 and .6 margin.

Your grist is actually fine for the style as a lot of the older Milds of the day often had just pale malt or pale and crystal, with the remainder being made up with sugar and/or roasted malts/adjuncts.

As you will hear many times Mild only means 'unaged' beer, it is entirely possible to have a pale Mild as the majority would have been darkened using Brewers Caramel, take that a way and you get a pale beer.

15% made be a tad high on the crystal, I tend to hover around 10% at most on a simple grist, only going higher on more complex ones. Others will say the Sarah Hughes Ruby Mild is great and that has 20%? Of crystal but for me it is too much.

With the hopping rates I would really cut back on the aroma hop as going by guidelines for your sake, the malt is supposed to be the dominant aroma, for either my dry hop or aroma hop additions on a Mild it is generally between 0.5g/l and 1g/l. Something I have been experimenting with recently is using oak chips either as a dry hop or in the aroma stages of the boil, both have seen positive reviews.

As for the Admiral it is a flavour intensive hop but has virtually nothing in the way of aroma, with such a low grist I would suggest adding then at 60 minutes for less of the strong bitterness and get a little more of the subtle flavours going in.

Next up is the mash temperature, again in previous years Milds and Bitters would have been produced as running beers for breweries and as such would have been mashed low to gain a full attenuation from the yeast, sometimes a full 90 minute mash at 60°, making it watery hence the stigma, more modern versions are mashed anywhere between 65° and 70° to retain some degree of body, for yours I would be mashing in at least 68° but use a good highly attenuative English yeast strain.

Invest in a vial of White Labs, Wyeast or Brewlabs and learn to crop, you won't regret it. The range of attenuation you will be wanting is at least 75% to leave some residual sweetness but to dry it out so it doesn't make it cloyingly sweet (something I didn't know before).

My two best examples that have been reviewed have been a Ridleys Mild clone using 95% Pale Malt, 5% Chocolate Malt and 11% Sugar by weight and a Tolly Cobbold Mild clone of 85% Pale Malt, 10% Crystal Malt and 5% Chocolate Malt, both with 20 - 30g of oak chips for a dry hop and weighing in at 3.5% abv and 3.2% respectively.

There is also some information on my blog about making traditional and modern Milds, always there if your interested.

Any other questions just ask :thumb:

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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Sep 01, 2015 09:17

Kyle_T wrote:
My two best examples that have been reviewed have been a Ridleys Mild clone using 95% Pale Malt, 5% Chocolate Malt and 11% Sugar by weight


That doesn't seem to add up or are you using some form of Bakers percentages?

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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby Kyle_T » Tue Sep 01, 2015 09:25

graysalchemy wrote:
Kyle_T wrote:
My two best examples that have been reviewed have been a Ridleys Mild clone using 95% Pale Malt, 5% Chocolate Malt and 11% Sugar by weight


That doesn't seem to add up or are you using some form of Bakers percentages?


This had a few people stumped until I was informed that some breweries (not sure how many) added the amount of sugar as a percentage of the total grist weight.

E.g: A recipe calls for 3,000g of grist, 95% Pale Malt and 5% Chocolate Malt.

95% of 3,000 is 2,850.
5% of 3,000 is 150.

Making our 100% but to reach the required gravity we need an addition of sugar equal to 11% of the grist weight.

11% of 3,000 is 330.

So we end up with a Ratio of 95%/5% and 11% additonal sugar for a total ingredient bill of 3,330g.

Why it was done this way I do not know but it must be something in relation to the Brewers Pounds measurements and the want to reduce costs on using grain.

Next Brew: AG#63.

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Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby graysalchemy » Tue Sep 01, 2015 09:48

Thats basically what bakers percentages is :thumb:

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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Tue Sep 01, 2015 19:56

Great information Kyle - thank you :thumb:

I will get a better look at this later this evening

Cheers

Greg
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Tue Sep 01, 2015 23:14

Hi Kyle,

huge thanks for taking the time to help with this

The abv is coming out just about bang on 3%. If the gravity to bitternes ratio is the IBU divided by (original gravity minus 1 multiplied by a thousand) then this would give 14.3/30=0.48 which looks ok....if I have the right end of the stick of course.

From reading your comment regarding the grist and your recipe suggestions I can easily adjust the crystal and add chocolate malt and sugar.

I am delighted to drop the aroma hops significantly, at 0.75g/litre then a 9 gram addition of pioneer would seem ok??? I can also get some oak chips for dry hopping probably around 12 grams for 12 litres??? The admiral would go in at 60 mins is that also what you meant???

Mashing at 68 will be fine, will 60 minutes be enough? I can order some of the suggested yeast although I will need to do a crash course on attenuation and cropping as this is something I have no idea about!!! Any good threads to link to or any further info would be appreciated.

I like the look of both the Ridleys Mild clone using 95% Pale Malt, 5% Chocolate Malt and 11% Sugar by weight and a Tolly Cobbold Mild clone of 85% Pale Malt, 10% Crystal Malt and 5% Chocolate Malt, both with 20 - 30g of oak chips for a dry hop and weighing in at 3.5% abv and 3.2% respectively. I will probably try the Tolly grist ( I have some chocolate to use up) with the admiral and pioneer hops and see how it turns out.

I have had a few looks at your blog Kyle and will pay more attention in future. Thanks again - I might try and get this on tomorrow night assuming we have nowt else planned.......

Cheers

Greg :thumb:
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby Kyle_T » Wed Sep 02, 2015 07:09

Hello Greg,

Your current BU:GU ratio is pretty much where you want it. I used to head more towards the .40 until I started doing just single hop additions and then went for between .50 and .60, it makes a nice change when you've made a few!

When it comes to sugar try and avoid using sun white sugar, whilst it is perfectly acceptable I prefer using the brown sugars (light/dark) or Muscavardo.

Another option that works well is Golden Syrup due to it already being partially inverted, this can be mixed with either blackstrap molasses or black treacle to give you something equal to the traditional Brewers Invert syrup. Luckily for me I have the real sugar. Just keep in mind that Golden Syrup and Treacle Syrup are only 75% fermentable and will leave considerable residuals sweetness molecules behind in comparison to other stuff.

Round it up to 10 grams, I use 20g from 23 litres so it's about the same. As for the Admiral I was thinking you were doing a 90 minute boil...my bad, 60 minutes will be fine but keep an eye on the intensity of the flavour.

I'm still experimenting with the oak chips but the most effective method I have found is adding them after being steamed to the secondary fermentation, I will carry on testing different methods and let you know when I find a better one. It's a good flavour that adds something different to the style.

68 degrees will be fine if you intend to go with the Tolly Mild clone, I personally would stick to whatever your regular mash time is. Just remember that it's supposed to be a quaffable beverage so you want it with a nice body but dry and drinkable.

As for yeast cropping it's easier said than done providing you brew regularly to keep the yeast healthy but the difference in flavour is non comparable to dry yeast.

Cheers,
Kyle

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Fri Sep 04, 2015 20:46

The mash is all tucked up at 68c. Going with 6g admiral for bittering and 10g pioneer for aroma. Using wilkos ale yeast this time but will investigate some of the liquid alternatives for future. Picking my daughter up shortly from a party and will get sparging and boiling about quarter past nine
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby robwalker » Fri Sep 04, 2015 22:09

Sounds good greggy greggleson the third. I think gervin is a solid yeast and makes a great beer, sounds like you're onto a winner!
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Fri Sep 04, 2015 22:12

Cheers Robadobadooby it's Boiling like good un
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby Kyle_T » Fri Sep 04, 2015 22:18

Let us know how it turns out :thumb:

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Fri Sep 04, 2015 22:31

Will do Kyle
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Fri Sep 04, 2015 22:49

Pioneer in with whirlfloc
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Fri Sep 04, 2015 22:53

In the sink
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Fri Sep 04, 2015 22:54

For cooling!!!
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby rui » Fri Sep 04, 2015 23:13

good luck or boa sorte its how we say it in portuguese!!! let us know how will be!!

Planning: Raspberry Witbier, , Bitter, Porter
FV1: BIAB#41 Robust Porter
FV2:
FV3:
keg1:BIAB#39 American ipa
keg2: BIAB#38 BEST BITTER
bottled and conditioning: BIAB#37 blonde ale,
drinking: BIAB#27 American pale ale
Barril de carvalho francês (French oak barrel) fermention stage: 500L of rose wine
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Fri Sep 04, 2015 23:39

Thank you Rui

OG at 30c is 1030
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby gregles » Thu Sep 24, 2015 19:33

Cracked open a bottle of this brew tonight and well impressed - thanks Kyle :hat:

The final Gravity was 1.006 so about 3.4 abv and very tasty. I racked about 4.5 litres to a demijohn and added 20g of steamed wood chips for a couple of days before bottling with about a third of a teaspoon of sugar per bottle. The rest went into a newly acquired polypin with nothing but a bit of sugar and is conditioning for a first run out with my beer engine :thumb:

I really had no idea how this was going to turn out but it has a exceeded my expectations and is definitely one I will brew again :drink:

Greg
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Re: Would this make a mild?

Postby Kyle_T » Thu Sep 24, 2015 19:39

Glad it worked out for you Greg. I will always maintain people are missing a trick if they just snub Mild before they make one.

We can always use some more next year at the festival :lol:

Next Brew: AG#63.

Beer Brewed (2015): 136.4 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2016): 90.0 Gallons
Beer Brewed (2017): 20.0 Gallons

First AG Brewed: 11.4.2013.
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